MedianXL Mechanics Then And Now

Discuss Median XL!
mediangaming
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Hey guys so I know the forums are full of people harassing other players here, but I hoped to have a normal conversation with normal people about the state of the game, it's future, and hopefully ways to improve upon it! I played median when it first came out, and always returned every few years or so to check out it's progress, and when I first started playing what really made me like this game was the unique community of people that were always helpful to others. I think the reason this game had such a nice community of normal helpful people was the philosophy that sort of formed the foundation for the game. MedianXL was set apart from the development of main stream gaming, which at the time was taking a route that was abusive of the players. Main stream gaming sought to use programming in order to exploit people, and manipulate them, and so communities outside of the main stream world sought to carve out a path that was antithetical to this development trend of using programming to the fullest extent possible to manipulate people, and MedianXL was one of them. I think that is the primary reason for the success of MedianXL actually, and the basis for the very positive community of people that gravitated towards this game, it's community, and apart from others.

There's even sort of a dual class system now in MedianXL I think, where some oldschool players like myself still maintain the old philosophy that made median great to begin with, and a positive environment for new players to enjoy, and there's a new class that is sort of mildly-overtly abusive of the game, and seek to monopolize it's resources, and capitalize on the virtual world, and take advantage of people. They're like polar opposites...You can't miss them.

Anyways I actually wanted to talk about GAME MECHANICS, and how they influence our experience in the virtual world. When I used to make a new character in the past, I would play with the docs or the game guide alongside the game so I could quickly search out different items to craft, the potential use of different runes, or item bases, and generally reference the complex of different options available to my character while leveling up, or farming. That was what old median was like. There was always something new, and interesting to discover about the game, and it was always fun to try out new things, and experiment with different skills/crafts. There was also always other people, and other games to join, that could help out if needed, or just be a friend.

NOW, things are very different. MedianXL is the same game right? A Diablo 2 mod, but now the underlying game mechanics, and culture or community have changed dramatically. Now, I don't play with the game guide out anymore. There's nothing interesting or new to discover. I know exactly what my character needs to do, and I know exactly what few items my character needs, and that all the other items are useless. I know there's no use in trying out different skills or game mechanics for fun because there's only a very limited amount of skills and game mechanics to take advantage of that work out for my character, it's build, and that all the other skills, and game mechanics are not only bad, but so bad that they are a waste of time.

NOW, instead of a community of people having fun in the virtual world, helping each other out, joining each others games to have fun, and be social, MedianXL has turned into a soulless grind fest similarly to the main stream games it had originally set itself apart from. Now, it's a bad thing if you play the game with other people, because your character doesn't benefit from playing with other people when you are competing for the exact same limited items, that you/others want/need. And it's even simple math to figure out why this is the case now. Take a look at the runewords, and tiered unique page. Understanding the game mechanics even basically we can see that most of the items are junk, and useless for any given build. Another way to recognize this is to look at the character guides, which represent the exact items your character will want/need to use at each stage in the game. And median has even become a much larger game now, there are more challenges, more bosses, to complete, and so as a new player looking to get to the end game content, now, there is simply a ton of work that needs to be done, in order to get there, and without the limited items and upgrades each character/build needs it's actually impossible to progress.

There's only limited amounts of character builds that can possibly perform well in many respects. Some are better at farming areas, some are better at bosses, then there are specific end game farming, and boss areas where also, only specific characters and builds can do well. And because of the nature of the game, the limited character builds that perform well in these areas are able to achieve enormous benefit compared to everybody else while their build can complete a farm/boss in 2 minutes while everybody else is stuck in a death loop, or it takes them 30 minutes. Each area is the stepping stone for the next too, so if your friend can do it in two minutes, and you are stuck in a death loop, they will get the gear/upgrades they need to get to the next zone, while you are stuck in that one area, the entire season.

The game has gotten harder over time, and while the game has developed new challenges that require greater skills, greater gear, greater stats to complete, character builds have been downgraded, skills have been downgraded, and items have been downgraded limiting the capability of people to progress whatsoever. The games difficulty in other words, has been upgraded, while skills/items have been downgraded. It used to be the case, that people in this game would freely share items, and help each other, and seek out games to join, in order to play with each other, now when we have games with other people in them people are fighting over the yellow rings and ammys on the ground, desperate to find a + skills ammy that they all need, or a potentially valuable item to trade, so they can finally get the upgrade they need to get into a higher level area, that they've been trying for weeks without success to find.

And honestly, I could go on and on about the game mechanics in median, and how the way they have changed over time has altered the experience for players. It used to be a very positive experience, with little to no pressure, and now in the new median that paradigm has completely flipped upside down. It's become a very singular experience, and it's honestly pretty boring when instead of exciting new things to discover, there is only one way to play the game, and one item we need for every slot, and that everyone is fighting to get, because only one build is actually useful, for the most part.

I think it's obvious how to improve the state of the game in the future. I think that downgrading abilities, skills, items, was a huge step backwards, while the game was getting harder, or gaining more challenges, instead of disabling builds, and disabling skills, I think they should have been left alone, or at least not downgraded. In fact micromanaging all the different character builds seems to have made the vast majority of them useless, and unfun to play at all.

The old median actually possessed a sense that every item, every skill, every build, was useful, and it was fun, and that the challenges required individual skill to complete, and specifically as opposed to limited items, gear, and builds. I think that is actually the main theme of Median, and that it has gravitated away from it's original design intentions, and philosophy, for the worse.
AGsniper
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Well done lad.





Well done.
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Lynderika
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Honestly I'm trying my best but most of what I read is "I grew up" rather than a talk about median mechanics themselves. What do you mean only a few builds works nowaday? The devs are doing great work to improve that, in early 2.0 and even 1.0 it might have been a mess but now it's about fine, many builds work. You say that every build working is a good point of old median, but weren't some things just immensely better than others already? It's just that you didn't care as much about performance, and weren't following the "meta" and guides. You were a happy new player discovering the game with the docs on your right, and I'm sure it was fun. But be sure that a new player nowaday can and will do the same, you on the other hand with years of experience will just not need it anymore.
I think you were just badly influenced by the new generation you criticize and got in the routine of playing. You found things that works for you and has an hard time trying out other things. That's my impression anyway because really there's tons of things to try out in this game still, I just discovered the fun of poison sorc this season, and I mean just talk to Mortimer 2 min in any season and you'll find out something new and nice.

Rather than downscaling builds, one thing that is true though is that lots of oskills don't keep up with the current game, a lot of care went to class innate builds and some specific oskills but it's very hard to add new content and have the ton of skills median have keep up. Your observation about item also makes sense, there is this sense that items are designed to have every or most stats x build want, while in old times there were more gimmicky/hybrids items. That's definitely a good point to look at. Though again there is work done balancing them so they're usable (though a big part would have been done by sio, rip), and while you mention everyone needing the same items and guides listing the same ones, I can tell you pretty much all of them have terrible early game set ups lmao. It's clear indication that it isn't as easy and straightforward as you imagine.

My personal observation with median recently is that 1.0 had tons of issues, 2.0 helped with lots of things and every patches since then has been very positive, though I don't agree with everything (heroic ubers is terribly implemented, nitho and riftwalkers are terrible bosses, for exemple) there has been lots of improvements. During 1.0 I was a sin otp because I couldn't like any other builds, now I could appreciate many others and have played enough that I can even say I like every classes but amazon (I thank the devotion system) and while sin didn't change much recently she's among my least liked classes now.

For me the older things that I think were great and are missing are the gimmicky/weird items, the easier and earlier access to oskills and actual reanimates. Of course you could add the fact that there were ubers in normal and nightmare, that added lots of punch to the mix and I'm sure very good memories for new players, it sure was fun to enter a zone randomly and be slapped by some immeasurable shittery, or be scared to death by some pouncing witch sound. I have a few other memories like the long ass corridor full of very dangerous enemies right before baal. (Though I also agree with the philosophy of level requirement, which make the progression fairer and easier to balance. Both work and to be honest if I could change the game as I wanted there would be both ubers with level requirement and other not)

But outside of thoses few very specific things? Man I'd play the current patch any day to older versions. I'd play those for some nostalgia (though I only played them briefly to be honest, I only started to be invested and really play a lot in sigma) or to have fun with something different, but I'd tell a new player to go with the current game without any hesitation
Edited by Lynderika 1 week.
mediangaming
Colossal Troll
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So you're saying that everything is great, and I just complain too much? I don't think you are serious honestly if that's your conclusion/takeaway.

I hoped this thread could be a place where we could discuss how the game can improve, and about how GAME MECHANICS can improve, to improve the experience of the game for everybody.

edit:(you're also saying that MedianXL used to be a 'souless grindfest' too in the past, and that I was just too noob to realize it, and that that's just great in your opinion.)
BearBearderBarb
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You have to be more specific about what do you mean by "old" and "new" median, since there are at least 4 distinct eras: early Laz (M2008), late Laz (MXL), Marco (MXLU) and Whist (MXL 2.0). While Marco era had its fair share of terrible content, a lot of blueprints for it, such as purify, heroic shields, sig grinding, several SU tiers and balanced around Assassin - were introduced by late Laz. So the "new" median exists for majority of its history.
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RequiemLux
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mediangaming wrote:
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What you have described has nothing to do with "game mechanics" and everything to do with game design (especially related to itemization & character progression) and UX. The solution you propose it's quite generic and general in nature and fails to account for the "why" certain decisions were/are made and what issues it may introduce on its own if not properly implemented with a potential cascade of additional tangential changes.
mediangaming
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So I brought you guys an example to show you what I'm talking about. I think if we put our heads together we can identify lots of ways the game mechanics can improve to improve the experience for everyone!

Movement Speed


Movement speed is the foundation for the character, it's abilities, and ability to dodge attacks, and deal damage, and is so vital to the character that now, skipping all the options for boots, and using green boots with 40% movement speed(max) is a common strategy for knowledgeable players.

All the other options for boots are ignored, because it is too hard now, with new changes in game mechanics to possibly roll the necessary 40% movement speed.

This is a good example of a backwards change, or a downgrade in basic fundamental game mechanics that negatively affects the game for everybody.

For my character I am working to craft myself a pair of 40% movement speed boots getting ready for 120+ content, knowing that I will need it, and that that's the only way to reliably get it. I turned on the filer for t4 boots in gamble, and gambled over and over buying all the t4 boots I could get, and ran shenk the overseer in the first zone of act 5 to get the mark of infusion, to roll the different boots until I got 40% movement speed finally. I'm actually still doing this farm right now... it will probably take me an hour.

Should every player have to spend hours and hours getting 40% movement speed boots, rolling the die? I don't think so!

What are your ideas for improving the game mechanics to improve the game experience for everybody!
Istaryu
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I agree, lets go back to the times when boots didnt have movement speed.
mediangaming
Colossal Troll
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This is what the state of the game looks like now... So I'm still doing this farm and rolled three 35% movement speed boots, still haven't got the 40% movement speed boots I need, to reliably complete the next set of challenges in the game!

30 boots, 30 new games, 1 hour

2 million gold

At this point, I can't wait to grind out the next zone, and all the others for the next round of hyper-redudant game mechanics. Wow, this is really boring!

Just count the rolls over time, we each have to go through in this game. That's what the game mechanics amount to... simple math anyone can see for themselves.

Maybe that's why the servers are so unstable with everyone constantly having to make new games repeatedly to take advantage of the game mechanics.

I'll let you guys know when I finally get out of this farm, I'll get you a pair of boots too if I can to save you the trouble.
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Crash
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have you tried just not complaining and accepting a 35ms because that 5ms doesnt even make act 1 blood moor in normal unplayable, let alone a fleshed out character prepping 120+