Suggestions for upcoming patch

The awaited Median XL sequel is coming - discuss it here.
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Quirinus
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Gekko64 wrote:would it be possible to let non ladder chars join ladder games, but not be able to leave town or drop any object? that way if your ladder character finds a nice item for a non-ladder char you can give it to him and the concept of ladder resets is not edulcorated since you can't use your old op character to boost the new one in any way. this should allow all players max freedom in being able to experience the best of both ladder and non-ladder gameplay


too complicated to code
"but if it's simple it's not that hard" - Quirinus 2017
"small things like this are not a big deal" - Quirinus 2017
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Unda
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Gekko64 wrote:
Unda wrote:This would only add more confusion to newcomers.


how so?


The Pandoras Box.

Whos ladder, whos not. Met new players who didnt know they are lader or non-lader and couldnt answer me that when they had issues with joining friend game so be ready for "I cannot trade with my friend! Hjalp!" and so on.
Need for crossrealm games filter for non-lader chars.
Game in which only non-lad char stays should be visible as non-lader or still as lader? Another filter for people logged as lader chars?
Undermined line between lader and non-lader. Giving up with new lader-only drops with such backdoor.
Filter this, filter that, exception1, exception2, filter this because exception1, player left - filter again because exception2... hmm okai stress server more.
Implementing and testing, push Sigma into Fritzl cellar... and welcome back 24 years later, hooray!
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Gekko64
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tough, but fair
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Unda
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Gekko64 wrote:tough, but fair


Ofc dont want to be dreambreaker, i took closer look for your idea before posting my opinion about it. Didnt wanted it to be tough for you, you know i answer seriously but always adding some stuff which should be taken with slight wink ;) Looking forward for more of your ideas.

Its just i dont recall any game which got crossrealm gear transfers from lader to non-lader during season. I dont think such change will be worth all effort, people still use SP to test stuff so it wouldnt bring something in return, but only take away purpose of lader. I never played non-lader but can think about end of lader season as nice moment for some people who doing both and can try some rare CotW they droped during season with some stuff they got from earlier laders.

I did mentioned things in my first post also with having in mind that even "simple" stuff on first sight like hatred/terror/destruction game filter or line added to games description saying on which difficulty game is, isnt there. Tho i dont know if anyone ever posted need for it, maybe useful when you want go pub game and farm there but also its not that important to take whist time to work on it.
krex87
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the more people in a game the more drops when farming
but even numbers of players makes no difference in drop rate unless you are partied and close to each other (otherwise people count as 0.5 iirc)
but unless you can implement d3 mechanic where everyone has their own drops, nobody wants to farm with people nearby (especially in public games)

would it be possible to change the unpartied/far away player count from 0.5 to 1? Or keep at 0.5 but make the system round up to nearest integer (iirc currently it always rounds down hence 2 unpartied people = no difference)

That way you get more drops when farming in a game with just 1 other person in it. I think it would encourage more people to play in same game while still doing their own farming. Think of all the 1 person public games you see? It's hard to find a recently created game with at least 2 people already in it (let alone who won't be upset if you join and farm separately)
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Gekko64
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Unda wrote:
Gekko64 wrote:tough, but fair


Ofc dont want to be dreambreaker, i took closer look for your idea before posting my opinion about it. Didnt wanted it to be tough for you, you know i answer seriously but always adding some stuff which should be taken with slight wink ;) Looking forward for more of your ideas.

Its just i dont recall any game which got crossrealm gear transfers from lader to non-lader during season. I dont think such change will be worth all effort, people still use SP to test stuff so it wouldnt bring something in return, but only take away purpose of lader. I never played non-lader but can think about end of lader season as nice moment for some people who doing both and can try some rare CotW they droped during season with some stuff they got from earlier laders.

I did mentioned things in my first post also with having in mind that even "simple" stuff on first sight like hatred/terror/destruction game filter or line added to games description saying on which difficulty game is, isnt there. Tho i dont know if anyone ever posted need for it, maybe useful when you want go pub game and farm there but also its not that important to take whist time to work on it.



don't worry dude, you made good points it was just some brainstorming on my part :mrgreen:
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whist
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krex87 wrote:the more people in a game the more drops when farming
but even numbers of players makes no difference in drop rate unless you are partied and close to each other (otherwise people count as 0.5 iirc)
but unless you can implement d3 mechanic where everyone has their own drops, nobody wants to farm with people nearby (especially in public games)

would it be possible to change the unpartied/far away player count from 0.5 to 1? Or keep at 0.5 but make the system round up to nearest integer (iirc currently it always rounds down hence 2 unpartied people = no difference)

That way you get more drops when farming in a game with just 1 other person in it. I think it would encourage more people to play in same game while still doing their own farming. Think of all the 1 person public games you see? It's hard to find a recently created game with at least 2 people already in it (let alone who won't be upset if you join and farm separately)


And where tf have you read players that aren't in range of the player count as 0.5? Because I certainly haven't ever heard about this nor have I ever seen any piece of code backing this up.
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thunderman
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whist wrote:
krex87 wrote:the more people in a game the more drops when farming
but even numbers of players makes no difference in drop rate unless you are partied and close to each other (otherwise people count as 0.5 iirc)
but unless you can implement d3 mechanic where everyone has their own drops, nobody wants to farm with people nearby (especially in public games)

would it be possible to change the unpartied/far away player count from 0.5 to 1? Or keep at 0.5 but make the system round up to nearest integer (iirc currently it always rounds down hence 2 unpartied people = no difference)

That way you get more drops when farming in a game with just 1 other person in it. I think it would encourage more people to play in same game while still doing their own farming. Think of all the 1 person public games you see? It's hard to find a recently created game with at least 2 people already in it (let alone who won't be upset if you join and farm separately)


And where tf have you read players that aren't in range of the player count as 0.5? Because I certainly haven't ever heard about this nor have I ever seen any piece of code backing this up.


Quote from diablo 2 wiki:

Number of players

The higher is the number of players, the higher is the number of items dropped by monsters. More precisely - monsters have lower chance to drop no items (this chance is defined in their main TC under NoDrop property). Now, how it works? We have the total number of players in the game, let's say it's N players. Health and EXP of monsters is enhanced by this formula: HP=HP*(N+1)/2. In 8 player game, monsters have 4.5 higher HP. In off-realm games, you can simulate more players by "/players X" command, where X > N.

But drops are not affected by simply N (all players in the game). The "NoDrop exponent" (or "player bonus") will be counted this way: Players who are a) unpartied with you or b) not close to you (around 2 screens), count only as 0.5 player. You and partied players close to you count as 1 player. Players added in off-realm games by "players X" command count as 0.5 player. The NoDrop exponent will be rounded down if it's not an integer. For example you are killing with your friend who is in your party monsters in the Pit and another player is killing monsters in Ancient Tunnels (it doesn't matter if he is in the party or not). Your NoDrop exponent will be 2 (rounded from 2.5).

This NoDrop exponent (NDE) is used for reducing the NoDrop number from monster TC:

New NoDrop = ND^NDE/(1-ND^NDE) * SumProb
where

New NoDrop - NoDrop probability after applying the player bonus
ND - base NoDrop probability = base NoDrop/base Sum of all probabilities including base NoDrop
NDE - NoDrop exponent
SumProb - Sum of probabilities of all TCs in main TC (minus NoDrop)
For example our Devilkin has ND 100, SumProb 60

using NDE=1 (1 player in game or 2 unpartied players)
New NoDrop = (100/160)^1/(1-(100/160)^1)*60 = (100/160) / (60/160) * 60 = 100/60 * 60 = 100 (what did you expect in 1 player game, more drops? )
using NDE=2
New NoDrop = (100/160)^2/(1-(100/160)^2)*60 = 0.390625 / (1-0.390625) * 60 = 38.4615 = 38 (the new no drop chance is 38/(60+38) )
using NDE=3
New NoDrop = 0.2441/(1-0.2441)*60 = 19.3798 = 19 (the new no drop chance is 19/(60+19) )
using NDE=8 (all players partied, close to killing player)
New NoDrop = 0.0232/(1-0.0232)*60 = 1.431 = 1 (the new no drop chance is 1/(60+1) )
NOTE: all melee monsters (H2H) have NoDrop 100 and probability sum 160, all Wraith type have NoDrop 75 and probability sum 104, etc.
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aerial
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I was playing around with untwinked assassin, and I think you could look into its progression.
I know it's been this way for long time, but really doesn't it have to be this bad?
Sin has very hard synergy with charms and all the +max skills. On top of that many good builds are block based, so that is another steep requirement to get it going, while class doesn't have any block passive, so extra high dex requirement (compared to other classes that get some base block from skills).
Ways scale with max skills (increasing returns), so those very last points you get from laz upgrade, realm only amulet and so on, these grant most damage increase. Then skills like broadside, they really need all those max skilss possible to lower the cooldown.
What could happen is maybe make that progression more flat, so it gets all those things going faster, and gains less towards very last charms/max skills.
Unless it is intended so you twink the shit out of sin, or suffer through playing some glassy caster version to grind those charms. I think it could use some attention.

As for leveling sin, with new dodge formula. It is possible to abuse reaching very high dodge and not leveling to 120 on purpose, and getting bunch of charms this way. Unless this is intended, people actually do it because it makes it easier.

Nagisin I think requires some work, it lacks survival, and aoe potential. Hades gate is way too weak, just compare how many times it hits (once), its damage mod to other class skills, and fact it has cooldown. Either removing cooldown entirely or greatly increasing damage could help here. But fact that it requires corpse is really large penalty, if you are getting that corpse by using other naginata attack, with splash, you already kill portion of the pack, which makes use of hades gate questionable. The only time where this skill was really good in median history as I remember it, was when range of it was colossal, so by using one corpse, you created more 2-3 screens away.. With relatively small aoe now it makes it very hard to compete vs other melee skills.
Using skills like backstab and relying on splash damage, seems underwhelming, aoe is small, and extra dodge is just not enough to keep you alive (way squishier than claw with block). Sad part is that despite naginata having splash and way more damage, because there is just no good aoe/multihit ability (like noctule which outperforms all naginata skills), claw clears way faster.

As for throwsin, that uses classic throw skills such as stormcrows or maelstorm. They suck vs anything that remotely high density. Maelstorm while it is cool idea to aim, between monsters or near the pack to maximize damage (to not destroy main projectile), if you have wall of monsters coming at you (most median ubers), or straight up you teleport into full room of monsters, it makes this skill useless. Stormcrows with its mechanics of no pierce, limited projectiles, is simply weak against any even medium sized crowd. If you look back at days were atmg sin was popular to high atmg duration, that was the reason why atmg was chosen over normal throwing skills, it was just way better. I'd suggest some mechanical changes to those skills that make them more viable in high density areas.

New passive is pretty good (brc), but again it seems like icing on a cake for decked maxblock sin, when you have all your tools, maxed dodge, then after all these layers of defense up, that flat DR is great bonus on already tanky char. But if you debate usefulness of it for early-midgame blockless version of sin, with painfully low hp, it really doesn't feel like it makes that much of a difference.
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Personally one thing bothers me for years. And thats Halbu in Pandemonium Fortress.
I hate that guy. So bored ,so sleepy, so phlegm when he say : "Hail to you, Champion.....".
Im a hero / nephilim after all.
I never buy / sell my merchandise to him.
Added new voice and a decent greeting, would change my mind to bargain with him, until then he is dead to me.