Σ 1.2.0 Patch Notes

Marco wrote:
Frytas wrote:
Goatmilk wrote:So much for being excited for bringing back the elemental sorc builds.. what a joke. UHM is going to be good for sure, but the announcement for the patch made it sound like there'd be super amazing changes for a lot of stuff that just didn't get, well anything that matters really. -_-

Not sure what's up with the downvotes, you're right. After the announcement, I expected a general buff to ele & poison trees but it ended up being a single target skill rework + pyroblast and tempest buffs. I guess you gotta agree with every change(or lack thereof) blindly no matter what.

How are you any different than these "blind agreers"? You're making the opposite argument with the same lack of information and playtesting.

It's a bit amusing when people say the announced sorc changes were "misleading" when word by word, what happened is exactly what was announced. I encourage everyone that thinks so to actually read the "Build Improvements" paragraph and not jump directly into the builds list to assume they are getting an amount of changes on par with new assassin build.

On the other hand seeing certain people demand early patch notes only to get super salty and cynical at some random "taken out of context" changes, makes me question if we should do early log releases at all. This endless battle between conspiracy theorists and believers is just getting too old and toxic. Now it seems that if you support a change you're dumb because the devs are just trying to fuck us over.

Even calling buffs "a nerf" seems to be the trend now and I've even heard (multiple times now) that this blatantly obvious buff patch is a "nerf patch".

Oh well. Keep it civil folks, is all I ask.

That Neutraldin Guy chiming in here. The overall patch notes are vastly buff related with some small nerfs to magic missile and maelstrom and oris herald being about all the nerfs we saw, oh and no 100% avoid cheese on ww druid.

Outside of that practically everything was a buff across the board. The elemental changes to sorc are a slight bit confusing in the patch notes but they made the skills which require skill to properly use the strongest single target available and some getting insane number bumps like the poison one with a 419% I believe it was.

But this sorta thing proves my view on needing a better format to talk about the changes and why I'm hosting a podcast along with Toxen, so things wont just be people bashing one thing cause it wasnt what they wanted. Instead there will be actual discussion and debates on the topic amongst the speakers with Q&A interaction with the chat afterwards.

This post isn't aimed at you Marco, more so using your point of view and message as a reasoning for my point of view on why forums/discord aren't a great tool for balance changes because people rant and rage over the smallest thing

The announcements page said "considerable changes" to sorc elemental trees. You changed 5 skills, 3 of them were more damage but less area, and 2 of those were already near impossible to use vs any kind of moving target. I wouldn't call that "considerable" in any context. No changes to survivability, nerfs to targeting ease, only a few of the total skills changed at all. Nobody played those trees for a reason, and those reasons still remain, and may be even more pronounced now.

Well there is a lot of changes to elemental sorc with the new sets as well, it's going to require some actual play-testing to really make any conclusions about the state of elemental sorcs in my opinion.

It’s a lot more nuanced than “was this a buff patch or a nerf patch?”

The changes should be regarded on a case by case basis.

I received so much hate from the stans on discord for pointing out that the buffs Spearzons received weren't focused on mitigating the most significant drawbacks of the build (survivability and clunky health orb mechanics) but were instead focused on buffing pounce damage (trash mob clear speed) which wasn’t even a major issue. In addition, Great Hunt got nerfed so they are now even less endgame boss viable.

A buff is meaningless if it doesn’t mitigate the build’s core design flaws that make it unplayable.

How hard could it have been to replace 30-40% of the TCD you receive from lioness with a dodge/avoid passive that might help compensate for the small Health pool/lack of block?

S20 stats showed 4% of Amazons played Spearzon. Did you even bother to ask why that might be? Did literally anyone complain about pounce damage being their main issue? The changes made to the tree just seems so out of touch and unnecessary.

Primarch wrote:It’s a lot more nuanced than “was this a buff patch or a nerf patch?”

The changes should be regarded on a case by case basis.

I received so much hate from the stans on discord for pointing out that the buffs Spearzons received weren't focused on mitigating the most significant drawbacks of the build (survivability and clunky health orb mechanics) but were instead focused on buffing pounce damage (trash mob clear speed) which wasn’t even a major issue. In addition, Great Hunt got nerfed so they are now even less endgame boss viable.

A buff is meaningless if it doesn’t mitigate the build’s core design flaws that make it unplayable.

How hard could it have been to replace 30-40% of the TCD you receive from lioness with a dodge/avoid passive that might help compensate for the small Health pool/lack of block?

S20 stats showed 4% of Amazons played Spearzon. Did you even bother to ask why that might be? Did literally anyone complain about pounce damage being their main issue? The changes made to the tree just seems so out of touch and unnecessary.

4% of people played spearzon because it requires good gear. Ben almost did Sammy on a spearzon with a great hunt build, however MMZon was much stronger so he swapped to that. Also, removing tcd from spearzon for dodge is a very bad change as spear gets insane tcd which you can use Avalor + Paragon for some really solid hp. So the small healthpool is completely incorrect it's quite easy to hit 30k hp on spearzon.

Marco wrote:On the other hand seeing certain people demand early patch notes only to get super salty and cynical at some random "taken out of context" changes, makes me question if we should do early log releases at all.

Please stick to the current way of releasing patch notes ~2 days earlier as it allows us to actually read the notes carefully and plan ahead. Do not give in to the vocal minority on forums. That's one sure highway to hell.

good to see nothing changed about wolf druid and its still "buy-your-charms-after-farming-dunc" build

Development of this patch probably started after the last patch, not when s20 stats were generated. Dev's seem to be splitting time between engine improvements, and in game content. I think for a free mod whats been completed in this span of time is really great. People are wanting whole builds redone, and we are getting one each patch that people have been really liking.

Thumbs up from me guys :]

My only complaint is glide gives me the slow top left symbols bug, and 30-80 fps. I know the game's animations are 25 fps, but i think the game looks better still at high frame rate (projectiles in the air look smoother?).

I hope to see glide improvements one day, like constant 500fps locked.

TgTalcon wrote:
Primarch wrote:It’s a lot more nuanced than “was this a buff patch or a nerf patch?”

The changes should be regarded on a case by case basis.

I received so much hate from the stans on discord for pointing out that the buffs Spearzons received weren't focused on mitigating the most significant drawbacks of the build (survivability and clunky health orb mechanics) but were instead focused on buffing pounce damage (trash mob clear speed) which wasn’t even a major issue. In addition, Great Hunt got nerfed so they are now even less endgame boss viable.

A buff is meaningless if it doesn’t mitigate the build’s core design flaws that make it unplayable.

How hard could it have been to replace 30-40% of the TCD you receive from lioness with a dodge/avoid passive that might help compensate for the small Health pool/lack of block?

S20 stats showed 4% of Amazons played Spearzon. Did you even bother to ask why that might be? Did literally anyone complain about pounce damage being their main issue? The changes made to the tree just seems so out of touch and unnecessary.

4% of people played spearzon because it requires good gear. Ben almost did Sammy on a spearzon with a great hunt build, however MMZon was much stronger so he swapped to that. Also, removing tcd from spearzon for dodge is a very bad change as spear gets insane tcd which you can use Avalor + Paragon for some really solid hp. So the small healthpool is completely incorrect it's quite easy to hit 30k hp on spearzon.

1) I never said remove TCD entirely. I said a portion.

2) So you bring up Arkaine’s valor (damage loss) and going paragon to give Spearzons some semblance of survivability yet fail to comment on the fact that this comes at the cost of curare, which Removes a significant portion of your damage as well. Especially given how many phys/magic immune you find in places like Fauzt. You’re suggesting one should gimp their damage to mediocrity in order to survive basic endgame encounters.

3) This also brings up another point... If Spearzons also require paragon to survive in endgame content, can you name a single zon build that benefits from Curare? If so, why did it get buffed this patch if no one can afford to use it anyways?

4) If a build requires “good gear” to be even halfway viable and still comes out lackluster, wouldn’t that mean it pales in comparison to other builds and needs to be touched up? We aren’t talking about some Niche mana Sweep Sorc that one rapes everything with required SSSU’s here. We’re talking about a cookie-cutter Amazon talent tree build that remains unviable after multiple patches. That alone should warrant a rework.

Nothing I’m saying is radical or edgy. It’s common sense. Honestly, I might not even play this patch at this point. It’s just the principle of having a dead build that no one wants to play for several patches and doing nothing about it that I feel warrants condemnation. The worst part is that there are so many people who havent even played one in recent years that are offering up theoretical notions of viability in an attempt to contradict my direct observations.

If I’m full of shit, why don’t you prove me wrong and play one this season. Tell me how much endgame content you can clear this patch with the new “buff”.

(Also, why was my forum account suspended with a “last warning” for the post I just made? It didn’t violate any of the community standards and I never received any other warnings.)

Don't forget everyone, this is their game, and they're gonna make it how they want it, not you.