Discussion: Party Play / Trading

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heamn
Gravedigger
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Firstly i need to apologize derailing the other thread viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1616
The topic was originally about TSW low drop rate complains, where also brought up my interest to discuss about Party Play / Trading

So far the 2 issue that i've summarize and interested to further discuss is as below

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Party Play-
There are a few players (including myself) that agreed the low drop rate settings isn't the real issue here, as it should be easily overcome by partying up, boosting the drop rate and as well the exp rate

With all the perks in mind, we are curious that why is there less players wanted to party up? Give me your thoughts or past experience/incident that makes you stopped wanting to play in party?

Compilation
1) Fumbles's input - Potential sprite limit issue with extra players - Game's limit and potentially fixed in Sigma
2) Cowking's input - Potential sprite limit issue with extra players - Game's limit and potentially fixed in Sigma
3) Fumbles's input - Drop Allocation - Unless Sigma implements certain drop system, else it can only be manually talked about between players
4) Cowking's input - Drop Allocation - Precious items like trophy doesn't multiplicative drop , and players often run certain contents if knowing certain items has high drop probability - Potential grudge if drop allocation wasn't done properly
5) Cowking's input - Dead weight/overpowered - Most vets plays on ADHD rush mode, causing unfamiliar players to fall way behind (newbie or someone that leveled with crappy gears) commonly happens during general leveling 1->120, making the players to either carry someone or being carried, resulting a dull gameplay
6) Cowking's input - Difficulty - Some builds aren't suitable for co-op, going from P1->P2/P4 will wreck the players as the HP/DMG of mobs scales up, unless party synergy is good enough to cover the gap
7) Hybridreamer's input - HC Ghost town - Almost impossible to find players to party up.

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Trading -
Somewhere in the discussion, someone suggested that in past ladder there was a market maker that successfully outlined baseline prices for items which stabilized the market, however it's near impossible to maintain that position. (This is not a full time job), 2nd suggestion was referring to TG section for reference, and after checking out the TG section, i do think that it's a good and stable currency, just that people needs to be actively updating their comments for pricing reference.

With TG as a pointer, trading should sound fair and square, what are the elements that are holding you back from doing trades with other players?

Compilation
1) Fumbles's input - Unstable Item Value - Depending on flavor of the month, making players not interested to trade unless they needed certain items or the trade's favor is on their side

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I will try to compile all the suggested/shared points into the main post.

Please feel free to share your thoughts or discuss/debate in a constructive way,
if you're not interested, i seek your understanding to ignore/walk away,
or if your epeen is so huge and you really have the urge to bash, please let me know and i might consider to open another thread for bashing purpose only. :flip:

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Quote Section for inputs - Original Text/Post
1) Fumbles @ Post no2 - viewtopic.php?p=46734#p46734
2) Cowking @ Post no4 - viewtopic.php?p=46749#p46749
3) Qweqwe @ Post no6 - viewtopic.php?p=46756#p46756
4) Hybridreamer @ Post no8 - viewtopic.php?p=46758#p46758
Edited by heamn 8 years.
Fumbles
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Too many spells/procs/reanimates/summons on the screen and fps goes to shit. Having a better pc helps but the game has its limits.

Aside from that, how are drops decided? If you have a character that is slower than other players you are farming with, you won't have the same chance they do to pick up drops. This is something Path of Exile handled the right way. When a player creates a party, they can choose one of three options:

Permanent Allocation - Drops (of a minimum value) are assigned randomly to players in the area. When an item drops, only 1 person can pick that item up unless they leave the area. If that happens then anyone can pick it up. If they player picks up the item and drops it, anyone can pick it up. If the player tries to pick up the item with a full inventory, anyone can pick it up.

Short Allocation - Same as above except the drop is allocated to a random player for the first 5 seconds and then anyone can pick it up

Free for all - no allocation.

Having a drop system like this implemented could make multiplayer games more appealing for farming though it won't help with fps issues. Maybe players who want multiplayer games can make games advertising their intentions. When players join, make a group decision as to who is going to farm where and maybe rotate farming areas in future games. In fauzt/vizjun, 2 ppl could split up and farm. Tran/dunc/k3k/bremm/khalimgrad and others are better suited for solo farming imo.

As far as trading is concerned, I don't think item value has been stable since the addition of sssus. Item values change with flavor builds that come and go and most items depreciate as ladders age. Most players aren't interested in trading items unless its for something they need or they are getting value for the trade.
heamn
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Fumbles wrote:Too many spells/procs/reanimates/summons on the screen and fps goes to shit. Having a better pc helps but the game has its limits.

Aside from that, how are drops decided? If you have a character that is slower than other players you are farming with, you won't have the same chance they do to pick up drops. This is something Path of Exile handled the right way. When a player creates a party, they can choose one of three options:

Permanent Allocation - Drops (of a minimum value) are assigned randomly to players in the area. When an item drops, only 1 person can pick that item up unless they leave the area. If that happens then anyone can pick it up. If they player picks up the item and drops it, anyone can pick it up. If the player tries to pick up the item with a full inventory, anyone can pick it up.

Short Allocation - Same as above except the drop is allocated to a random player for the first 5 seconds and then anyone can pick it up

Free for all - no allocation.

Having a drop system like this implemented could make multiplayer games more appealing for farming though it won't help with fps issues. Maybe players who want multiplayer games can make games advertising their intentions. When players join, make a group decision as to who is going to farm where and maybe rotate farming areas in future games. In fauzt/vizjun, 2 ppl could split up and farm. Tran/dunc/k3k/bremm/khalimgrad and others are better suited for solo farming imo.

As far as trading is concerned, I don't think item value has been stable since the addition of sssus. Item values change with flavor builds that come and go and most items depreciate as ladders age. Most players aren't interested in trading items unless its for something they need or they are getting value for the trade.


Bro, thanks for taking time for the input, i'm going to collect as much data to check if we could work out a solid solution/suggestion to the devs. xD
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cowking
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Multiple reasons.

1.) most people play on AHDH rush mode and gameplay becomes such that you can't even look at the drops without falling behind by 10 screens. Not very enjoyable. Even more so if you're a newbie and don't know exactly what you're looking for. Very common in general leveling from 1->120.

2.) knowing that if something universal drops, everyone makes a run for it with at least 50% probability.

3.) dead weight, people who rush their chars with shit gear and do nothing but increase the player count like help pls, aka complete retardation. Leads to next point.

4.) some builds aren't so great for co-op, if you depend on putting enemies into FHR for survival, going from P1->P2 or P4 can wreck you since enemies have not just more HP but more damage. The exception to this is when the new player has a large damage/defense buff to help you.

5.) general powergaming, where 50% of the realm is playing pouncezon, java or wolf druid etc. Cow runs with 3x wolf druids are not fun, unless you want to afk loot everything.

6.) charm drops are not multiplied. Say you're running TA and trophy drops, only one player will get it.

7.) general fucking stupidity, like plz don't use skill x (even though your build revolves around it), it lagz.

Overall I almost always assume the worst in a public game. There are very few times you can actually find co-op that doesn't tick multiples of the above. Why suffer in a group when you can enjoy in peace?
heamn
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cowking wrote:Multiple reasons.

1.) most people play on AHDH rush mode and gameplay becomes such that you can't even look at the drops without falling behind by 10 screens. Not very enjoyable. Even more so if you're a newbie and don't know exactly what you're looking for. Very common in general leveling from 1->120.

2.) knowing that if something universal drops, everyone makes a run for it with at least 50% probability.

3.) dead weight, people who rush their chars with shit gear and do nothing but increase the player count like help pls, aka complete retardation. Leads to next point.

4.) some builds aren't so great for co-op, if you depend on putting enemies into FHR for survival, going from P1->P2 or P4 can wreck you since enemies have not just more HP but more damage. The exception to this is when the new player has a large damage/defense buff to help you.

5.) general powergaming, where 50% of the realm is playing pouncezon, java or wolf druid etc. Cow runs with 3x wolf druids are not fun, unless you want to afk loot everything.

6.) charm drops are not multiplied. Say you're running TA and trophy drops, only one player will get it.

7.) general fucking stupidity, like plz don't use skill x (even though your build revolves around it), it lagz.

Overall I almost always assume the worst in a public game. There are very few times you can actually find co-op that doesn't tick multiples of the above. Why suffer in a group when you can enjoy in peace?



Hey bro, thanks for taking time for the inputs.
I took some time to read thru and took the liberty to merge some of your points as below, as i'm trying to label/organize the inputs
Please correct me if you find inappropriate and i'll amend them

1/3/5 - Dead weight/overpowered
2/6 - Drop Allocation
7 - Potential sprite limit issue with extra players
4 - Difficulty
qweqwe
Cog
230 | 4
heamn wrote:Compilation
1) Fumbles's input - Potential sprite limit issue with extra players - Game's limit and potentially no viable solution
2) Fumbles's input - Drop Allocation - Unless Sigma implements certain drop system, else it can only be manually talked about between players


With regards to the techical side of things, I remember Whist posting a screenshot and saying Sigma can support up to 16 players per game and that they reduced sprites/made the mod engine more efficient to support more players.
http://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?p=31387#p31387

With regards to drop allocation, I'm 100% sure it has been discussed before. I don't remember what was the outcome.
heamn
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qweqwe wrote:
heamn wrote:Compilation
1) Fumbles's input - Potential sprite limit issue with extra players - Game's limit and potentially no viable solution
2) Fumbles's input - Drop Allocation - Unless Sigma implements certain drop system, else it can only be manually talked about between players


With regards to the techical side of things, I remember Whist posting a screenshot and saying Sigma can support up to 16 players per game and that they reduced sprites/made the mod engine more efficient to support more players.
http://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?p=31387#p31387

With regards to drop allocation, I'm 100% sure it has been discussed before. I don't remember what was the outcome.


Thanks for the input, Sigma sure is something that i'm looking forward to, if you could help dig up the drop allocation portion it would be great too!
Hybridreamer
Stone Warrior
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For me personally I like to play a lot on hardcore where quite frankly no one is ever playing haha. That's the main reason I don't ever have a party to play with.
qweqwe
Cog
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heamn wrote:Thanks for the input, Sigma sure is something that i'm looking forward to, if you could help dig up the drop allocation portion it would be great too!


The discussion starts around here: http://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?p=32649#p32649
heamn
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Hybridreamer wrote:For me personally I like to play a lot on hardcore where quite frankly no one is ever playing haha. That's the main reason I don't ever have a party to play with.


Well, i personally has not tried HC at all, thanks for the input. xD