Σ 1.6 Bugs&Feedback

suchbalance wrote:Your balance criticism is also way off base, to be honest. First, Samael & Deimoss/high Labs are content made to challenge hardcore players

If we talking about hardcore and current balance, and if you saying in your opinion current balance good, why we dont see 90% builds played like traprat/caster druid/melee barb/javazon/spearzon/bowzon and others? (most of them shit in different ways, someone dont have defensive mechanics, some of them melee, some of them dont have right skills etc.)

suchbalance wrote:That's the entire purpose of that content and the best players around have already proven that this content can be defeated with dozens of different builds.

It's actually very funny, yes end game bosses most of time its literally gear check and "meeting the requirements", but people start to think, well if its kills Deimoss or Samael means they are very strong! i can do big bonk and all screen dying but in reality, most of time its just works for boss killing only, its only proofs that build in cirtain situation works (like bosses)

► clickme

Marco wrote:How about you point out exactly the builds and their flaws

No matter which build and their flaws i say, its not "new" its been here for long time, and you and suchbalance know them, i will not say something new for you. (You know those builds/skills/mechanics)

I heard you have big balance team, and the only way to find out, its to try play all builds atleast all content till 120, only with this way you will see good and bad builds

Just questions i want to ask @Marco @suchbalance

► WHY QUESTIONS

Diaco wrote:oh man, those are some VERY ill informed opinions...

Your opinion for me is definetly very important, i am trying to change something in game, to make it feel better for new players to play any build they like and reach those 95% content, without pain and nerves. There should not exist builds that are enabled after buying sacred items to work there should be proper transition between early game to mid game to start farming uniques/shrines to make your way to endgame (exept oskills/craft etc) (we are talking about builds which uses their own skills) And i like to hear just farm AC/Sig and sell them, well what you will say to players that play in SP? (i always play bnet)

CallMeCrazySam wrote:It's always funny seeing feedback that "everything" should be good and able to clear content but there are never any concrete suggestions or numbers. Powercreep is also not the answer.

Also worth noting that even the "meme builds" can clear high level content in the right hands https://forum.median-xl.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53600&p=418025#p418025 , tier 1.5 btw (which should also speak to some of the problems with the tier list)

Yeah, like OnlyForFun already teasered, I think you missed the point. The tierlist even says in its description that it's meant for starter builds, for when you start with nothing. That doesn't take into account how much time/grind and dedication you need in order to get the best in slot gear. Furthermore it also doesn't take into account the maximum potential. The only thing it actually cares about is at which point you'll need gear upgrades and how fast you kill stuff with minimal investment.

As I suggested earlier, I'd love to see runewords getting reworked in order to bridge content better for those types of builds. The greatest part about runewords is that they are easily accessible and you even have enchanted runewords with essentially the same stats but way better. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone, since you'll have an early game item and an endgame item.

OnlyForFun wrote:
Diaco wrote:oh man, those are some VERY ill informed opinions...

Your opinion for me is definetly very important, i am trying to change something in game, to make it feel better for new players to play any build they like and reach those 95% content, without pain and nerves. There should not exist builds that are enabled after buying sacred items to work there should be proper transition between early game to mid game to start farming uniques/shrines to make your way to endgame (exept oskills/craft etc) (we are talking about builds which uses their own skills) And i like to hear just farm AC/Sig and sell them, well what you will say to players that play in SP? (i always play bnet)[/font][/size]

I play sp, and got most of my gear by playing lots of different builds, testing them out and seeing how far I could get with self found gear, then switching to other builds when I happened to find good gear for that build and so on. This has allowed me to test lots of different builds, and am now at the point when I can just theorycraft different builds around the gear I've found. It seems to me that you don't have much knowledge on the game. I've tried literally ALL the builds that you mention as being "shit", and managed to get to the endgame with all of them, without extreme gear. Right now I have amassed quite a bit of resources and I can tell you that true endgame content (sam/deimoss/labs) is definitely NOT a gear check, since I do have almost all the gear that people who have completed it use, and it's still very hard. True endgame requires deep knowledge of the game mechanics and how to finely balance defensive vs offensive stats, and of course, a ton of actual skill.

Off the top of my head, here's what I have to say about the builds you say are shit:
- Bowzon is literally THE fastest farmer in the game. I can't even fathom why you'd call it shit.
- Caster druid is actually pretty great, and just recently received big buffs to its poison skills. Also, while Elementals is arguably its weakest variants, many people have been able to make it work for almost all content.
- Javazon, while quite hard to master its gameplay, it has the potential of being an amazing labs farmer, since it has access to quite a few very powerful items that increase her max res, freeing space to invest resources on damage and/or HP instead of sacrificing it for resistances.
- Traprat druid has a VERY easy time leveling, completely melts all bosses until late ubers when properly geared. It can get extremelly tanky, and is an amazing lab farmer with the henchmen set.
- Spearzon has its problems, yes, but has access to amazing defense and EWD through skills alone. The pounce-curare variant is an actually pretty fast farmer. Also, its passive lends itself to experiment a lot with WDM oskills, which I've done to surprising results.
- Melee barb is the only one I'd say really needs some buffs... but you can make it work if you don't mind breaking your left click.

Would be cool if totems in lab were purify only and maybe do something about spirit of vengeance despawning so you dont have to bring a gallowlaugh with you.

Diaco wrote:It seems to me that you don't have much knowledge on the game.

Thanks god there so much experienced player, will tell me about balance and how those builds good and their mechanics work.
Looks like 10 years i was blind all time....

They can work with investments, and i said about it before, you just dont understanding that other builds will be better mechanically and will require less gear

Should i give examples? It's should be obvious, traprat is slow, require high damage weapon to start, having worst attack and hit recovery animation (henchman set to starting lab? 500tg+set + xis wep? very budget build you have there

)
bowzon? yes its run fast shoot STRONK, but well where defence? 0 def 0avoid any defence mechanic? Show me in ladder any high level bowzon with less then 200 deaths?
Java has potential, sorry java has shit skills, if it had good potential, everyone already would play her
Spear zon, who here want to play great hunt build with healing globes? pounce just not works without "buying gear"
And i said ONLY few builds, and there more of those how you call them "WORKING BUILDS" but you just need buy set for 500 tg to make it work

watch those videos if killing bosses with bodies counts like strategy for you :?:

SB, why you think mahi left hc sigma? :arrow:

i think he will not return now (-:

@sb @marco I will probably stop this discussion, there was person with his own opinion, and looks like he got banned, he actually as newbie in sigma was trying to explain from his own field of view about this balance difference between classes

Giu wrote:Would be cool if totems in lab were purify only and maybe do something about spirit of vengeance despawning so you dont have to bring a gallowlaugh with you.

finally, the best suggestions of sigma

Dont know if intentional or not, but orange affixes from relics do not stack on the same item (2 overkill relics on a balanced axe does not provide +10 axes)

dongflexer wrote:Dont know if intentional or not, but orange affixes from relics do not stack on the same item (2 overkill relics on a balanced axe does not provide +10 axes)

the effect does stack, but the desc in the item wont update if you stack cloned relics (orange stats dont have dynamic display like blue ones)

OnlyForFun wrote:bowzon? yes its run fast shoot STRONK, but well where defence? 0 def 0avoid any defence mechanic? Show me in ladder any high level bowzon with less then 200 deaths?

Oh boi... You are clearly on the top of the peak.

I like when we with mahi trying to make content and create videos on hardcore, killing bosses etc, being on top of ladder and after that there still players who will say those words, and dislike you

Diaco wrote:It seems to me that you don't have much knowledge on the game.

Istaryu wrote:Oh boi... You are clearly on the top of the peak.

► Show Spoiler