I have noticed several new players having problem with the game, I got feeling it might have be to with certain playstyle or certain class combination that made early game a bit more struggle than others.
Since I played tl;dr barb, I didnt have much issue other than trying to remember essential cube recipe, the game is pretty much breeze for me especially after initial resist gear check in act 2 or 3. I personally want to see if the game really need a more hand holding guide (or newbie guide) or maybe indeed some enemy needed some tweaking. It is pretty hard to see from perspective of old players, since you probably already have played the game for years, while this new players, might struggled even with basic ARPG concept.
So here am I, trying to help with my only possible way atm, is by creating a poll where you can both twice (and change afterward), just to get general ideas which class / playstyle had some issues. Actually I might use the data to play specific class in the future, so this is great time to get list of characters i should try next.
Just some old players who havent played median for years, trying to find enjoyment again.
Cheers.
Player leveling struggle poll (Pick 2)
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It would make for a really long poll but this would make more sense broken down by tree. For instance totem necro is face rolling strong but other necro specs struggle hard early on.
For my perspective I started with javazon. I played it in beta and ran a number of characters through the early acts to figure out how to do it. Most people will probably say javazon is painful to level early but since I knew how to do it I had a fairly easy time. The free respecs help a lot too, I ran Bowazon till level ~8 respecced to Java and then dumped as many points into energy as I could for a while to support high level split spear. She's certainly not as fast early on as other classes but done right it was pretty decent and gets pretty strong around Act3/4 once you get a RW or TU weapon.
Edit: One other thing some people may be missing is not leveling enough early on. I tried speed running java and got through Act1 at level 15 or so and it was painful doing Andy and catacombs. Later I realized I needed more levels early so I killed a lot more in cold plains/stony and finished Act1 at level 20 while ALSO getting through the act five minutes faster.
For my perspective I started with javazon. I played it in beta and ran a number of characters through the early acts to figure out how to do it. Most people will probably say javazon is painful to level early but since I knew how to do it I had a fairly easy time. The free respecs help a lot too, I ran Bowazon till level ~8 respecced to Java and then dumped as many points into energy as I could for a while to support high level split spear. She's certainly not as fast early on as other classes but done right it was pretty decent and gets pretty strong around Act3/4 once you get a RW or TU weapon.
Edit: One other thing some people may be missing is not leveling enough early on. I tried speed running java and got through Act1 at level 15 or so and it was painful doing Andy and catacombs. Later I realized I needed more levels early so I killed a lot more in cold plains/stony and finished Act1 at level 20 while ALSO getting through the act five minutes faster.
Bloodzon is absolute garbage early game with no summons. Both of her skills rely on monsters being at a certain distance far from her, and that's very hard to accomplish with just the merc.
Holy caster pally had HUGE mana issues, but no damage dealing problems. Deleveling did not help by much.
Holy caster pally had HUGE mana issues, but no damage dealing problems. Deleveling did not help by much.
I hope this helps! I played Median for a long time but I'm a noob in game mechanics.
For me it is simply the levelling skill you start with to determine how good of an experience I'm about to have.
Questions I'm asking myself: How fast does it kill (single target/multi target), when does it fall off/ can this get me to 105, are there ways to improve dmg (MOs, Passives, Stats)
Some Builds/Classes seem to start at an immediate disadvantage on level 1, because their levelling skill hasn't reached it's full potential yet.
Some Starting Skills seem to be more planned out than others, offering passives to increase it's performance as soon as you even catch a slight hint of falling off with damage.
Here's some skills I tried simply from level 1 to 20 to see which class is smooth
Paladin:
Mind Flay - simply great, oneshots mob packs from level 1 - you are just limited by your mana, which meditation and energy solve quickly. Feels better than the sorc eq. Super Smooth
Mage:
Fork Lightning - pretty close to Mind Flay. Spammable, a bit on the slow side when starting out. You are mostly standing and spamming it to clear packs. It's not the worst experience ever. Good
Druid:
Earth Talons - Trap Skill (no pun). It feels super awkward since the spike field is not like Rend - you will have empty spaces depending on where you click, always missing out mobs in packs. I 1 pointed this, maxed Charged Talons as passive and the moment I reached Birdstorm I respecced, to get my wasted points back. Earth Talons is just a worse Rend. Poor
Birdstorm - Pretty fun when you finally get it. With TU Blade and Thorn Shield at lvl 20 Andariel it still felt a bit underwhelming. Most players won't have the luck to find TUs in SSF and even if they do it's not a day/night difference between Shark RW. Good
Mana Pulse - no real explanation needed Smooth
Ember Spirit - Really cool. Feels better than the sorc eq. Is a really good single and multi target spell. Super Smooth
Steady Shot - I love bow druid, the best starting skill we ever had. Now at 105 I need to re-evaluate my build and find out what's working in Ubers - that's okay, it should get harder. Smooth
Necromancer:
Flametail Shot - It doesn't work for me, I can't kill anything under 5 seconds and grinding feels like a chore. Reaching lvl 15 for Dragonfire Oil doesn't seem to do anything - really thought this would be the power spike. I had all TU Xbows exept Trebuchet dropping, swapping to these didn't help in clearspeed. I spammed Death Shards as soon as I killed something, because it was just faster. Poor
Parasite/Carnage for melee Necro are good as usual, if you keep your Weapon upgraded and MO'd. Good
Barb:
Earthquake - Better with the rework. It's solid but a little on the slow side. Additional points seem to not do anything under level 20, so I just leave it at 1. Okay
Whirlwind - Unacceptable Condition. A whole new build, available from level 1 - useless and painfully odd to play with until level 50. Poor
For me it is simply the levelling skill you start with to determine how good of an experience I'm about to have.
Questions I'm asking myself: How fast does it kill (single target/multi target), when does it fall off/ can this get me to 105, are there ways to improve dmg (MOs, Passives, Stats)
Some Builds/Classes seem to start at an immediate disadvantage on level 1, because their levelling skill hasn't reached it's full potential yet.
Some Starting Skills seem to be more planned out than others, offering passives to increase it's performance as soon as you even catch a slight hint of falling off with damage.
Here's some skills I tried simply from level 1 to 20 to see which class is smooth
Paladin:
Mind Flay - simply great, oneshots mob packs from level 1 - you are just limited by your mana, which meditation and energy solve quickly. Feels better than the sorc eq. Super Smooth
Mage:
Fork Lightning - pretty close to Mind Flay. Spammable, a bit on the slow side when starting out. You are mostly standing and spamming it to clear packs. It's not the worst experience ever. Good
Druid:
Earth Talons - Trap Skill (no pun). It feels super awkward since the spike field is not like Rend - you will have empty spaces depending on where you click, always missing out mobs in packs. I 1 pointed this, maxed Charged Talons as passive and the moment I reached Birdstorm I respecced, to get my wasted points back. Earth Talons is just a worse Rend. Poor
Birdstorm - Pretty fun when you finally get it. With TU Blade and Thorn Shield at lvl 20 Andariel it still felt a bit underwhelming. Most players won't have the luck to find TUs in SSF and even if they do it's not a day/night difference between Shark RW. Good
Mana Pulse - no real explanation needed Smooth
Ember Spirit - Really cool. Feels better than the sorc eq. Is a really good single and multi target spell. Super Smooth
Steady Shot - I love bow druid, the best starting skill we ever had. Now at 105 I need to re-evaluate my build and find out what's working in Ubers - that's okay, it should get harder. Smooth
Necromancer:
Flametail Shot - It doesn't work for me, I can't kill anything under 5 seconds and grinding feels like a chore. Reaching lvl 15 for Dragonfire Oil doesn't seem to do anything - really thought this would be the power spike. I had all TU Xbows exept Trebuchet dropping, swapping to these didn't help in clearspeed. I spammed Death Shards as soon as I killed something, because it was just faster. Poor
Parasite/Carnage for melee Necro are good as usual, if you keep your Weapon upgraded and MO'd. Good
Barb:
Earthquake - Better with the rework. It's solid but a little on the slow side. Additional points seem to not do anything under level 20, so I just leave it at 1. Okay
Whirlwind - Unacceptable Condition. A whole new build, available from level 1 - useless and painfully odd to play with until level 50. Poor
I will just make list of bad starters in my opinion till act 3 mephisto, where you can farm crystals to overgear char to fix all problems and reach 120+
1. XBOW necro, absolute garbage i cant imagine worst starter than this guy, no damage, no good passives, no defence, literally nothing
2. Werewolf druid, nothing to say, class made only for farming, and cant do anything without muling
3. Holy melee paladin, literally dont have damage to have smooth experience, same unholy melee, but holy decent at endgame and unholy good -_-)
4.Javazon/Spear/Blood zon imo very weak starters (maybe someday devs will find out that bowzon should have atleast 1 good defence like assassin have (dodge))
5. Necro caster
6. Holy pala caster
and its only small part
all casters that have phys or magic damage have problems with damage scaling and mana, dont have access to pierce or dmg from passives, and its annoying to play where you need to kill elite mobs you need cast 10-15 times with 60 manacost when your max mana 600 )
I can only suggest devs, sit together and each should start to play SSF runs to mephisto and compare to current meta classes, how they perform, and make tweaks so its in lite with others
1. XBOW necro, absolute garbage i cant imagine worst starter than this guy, no damage, no good passives, no defence, literally nothing
2. Werewolf druid, nothing to say, class made only for farming, and cant do anything without muling
3. Holy melee paladin, literally dont have damage to have smooth experience, same unholy melee, but holy decent at endgame and unholy good -_-)
4.Javazon/Spear/Blood zon imo very weak starters (maybe someday devs will find out that bowzon should have atleast 1 good defence like assassin have (dodge))
5. Necro caster
6. Holy pala caster
and its only small part
all casters that have phys or magic damage have problems with damage scaling and mana, dont have access to pierce or dmg from passives, and its annoying to play where you need to kill elite mobs you need cast 10-15 times with 60 manacost when your max mana 600 )
I can only suggest devs, sit together and each should start to play SSF runs to mephisto and compare to current meta classes, how they perform, and make tweaks so its in lite with others
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No big issues with melee sorc, just need to get a T2 warp blade (rare or TU) in late act 2 so that your damage keeps up. Cold/lite spec can just facetank until level 120 if you put a couple life on attack orbs on your sword.
Stormzon is fine so far in Normal with 50 points into energy, you really need 70+ resists by the end of act 4 though. Put your skill points into Stormcall, but use 1pt hammers to clear because they're way more mana efficient. If you make
edit - Stormcall & Askari Lightning mana cost was just reduced pretty significantly in 2.0.2, I will check if it's easy to level with now
Stormzon is fine so far in Normal with 50 points into energy, you really need 70+ resists by the end of act 4 though. Put your skill points into Stormcall, but use 1pt hammers to clear because they're way more mana efficient. If you make
Chargebreaker
first, you don't have to decide whether you're going hammers build or stormcall until level 49, because both builds want it but all the other gear is different.Chargebreaker
Setzschild (4)
Defense: (492 - 573) to (969 - 1127)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 12
Required Strength: 39
Item Level: 10
1% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(10 to 15)% Block Speed
+(35 to 57)% Enhanced Defense
(8 to 10)% to Strength
(8 to 10)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 5%
Physical Damage Reduced by (3 to 5)
(8 to 10)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (1)
Defense: (1695 - 1902) to (3048 - 3418)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 30
Required Strength: 77
Item Level: 31
2% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(20 to 25)% Block Speed
+(81 to 103)% Enhanced Defense
(14 to 16)% to Strength
(14 to 16)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 7%
Physical Damage Reduced by (9 to 11)
(14 to 16)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (3)
Defense: (4287 - 4723) to (7550 - 8319)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 47
Required Strength: 270
Item Level: 51
3% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(30 to 40)% Block Speed
+(126 to 149)% Enhanced Defense
(20 to 22)% to Strength
(20 to 22)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 9%
Physical Damage Reduced by (15 to 17)
(20 to 22)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (5)
Defense: (6416 - 6983) to (11272 - 12268)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 56
Required Strength: 539
Item Level: 77
4% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(40 to 50)% Block Speed
+(149 to 171)% Enhanced Defense
(23 to 25)% to Strength
(23 to 25)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 10%
Physical Damage Reduced by (18 to 20)
(23 to 25)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (6)
Setzschild (4)
Defense: (492 - 573) to (969 - 1127)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 12
Required Strength: 39
Item Level: 10
1% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(10 to 15)% Block Speed
+(35 to 57)% Enhanced Defense
(8 to 10)% to Strength
(8 to 10)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 5%
Physical Damage Reduced by (3 to 5)
(8 to 10)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (1)
Defense: (1695 - 1902) to (3048 - 3418)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 30
Required Strength: 77
Item Level: 31
2% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(20 to 25)% Block Speed
+(81 to 103)% Enhanced Defense
(14 to 16)% to Strength
(14 to 16)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 7%
Physical Damage Reduced by (9 to 11)
(14 to 16)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (3)
Defense: (4287 - 4723) to (7550 - 8319)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 47
Required Strength: 270
Item Level: 51
3% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(30 to 40)% Block Speed
+(126 to 149)% Enhanced Defense
(20 to 22)% to Strength
(20 to 22)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 9%
Physical Damage Reduced by (15 to 17)
(20 to 22)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (5)
Defense: (6416 - 6983) to (11272 - 12268)
Chance to Block: 4%
(Amazon Only)
Required Level: 56
Required Strength: 539
Item Level: 77
4% Chance to cast level 1 Guard Tower on Kill
(40 to 50)% Block Speed
+(149 to 171)% Enhanced Defense
(23 to 25)% to Strength
(23 to 25)% to Dexterity
Physical Resist 10%
Physical Damage Reduced by (18 to 20)
(23 to 25)% Bonus to Defense
Socketed (6)
edit - Stormcall & Askari Lightning mana cost was just reduced pretty significantly in 2.0.2, I will check if it's easy to level with now
Edited by Siosilvar 2 years.
Resists seem to be a problem, as by Act 3 you seem to take a lot of ele damage but you can't realibly make good resist gear until early Act 5 (Shenk drop & some gold stockpile for honorific). You need to rely on gems and low runes.
Some classes have it easier, some have it harder. Barb carries leveling with 25/25 snake stance. 3k poison damage to attacks without any added mana cost. Apply with any skill you like, whirlwind has highest WDM but is clunky to use. Stampede works best.
Some classes have it easier, some have it harder. Barb carries leveling with 25/25 snake stance. 3k poison damage to attacks without any added mana cost. Apply with any skill you like, whirlwind has highest WDM but is clunky to use. Stampede works best.
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This poll is very lopsided. I tried the poison sorc (pure poison) last night and murdered everything no problems included bosses up to a3. The day before with the exact same spec and stat point placement, I tried a cold sorc (pure cold) and couldn't even progress past a2 without help when fully-geared living off the land without my dying repeatedly. Some skills are too weak at low level, but that is not reflective of the entire class, or even other branches of that class.