Claw Assassin; can it work and some questions?

[Ekital]

Shadowsabre is a meme. 8 frame attacks with a one-handed weapon is awful in a vacuum, let alone when claws give you 5 frames. Compare to Starhawk, which has like 3x the damage built in, on a class with 5 frame attacks, and wasn't better than the physical counterpart until this season when elemental weapons got massive gear support.

It's a meme if you're using it on sin. Not a meme on quite a few builds.

Which builds are they? (I'm genuinely asking btw)

It seems strange for the devs to create it with 15-25 to Crucify only if you're an assassin (and 14% extra magic damage to Crucify)... and expect people to use it in some other build.

It's possible that they just create random items, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Or maybe it's a leftover from some previous patch where it worked well - and they haven't re-thought it yet.

Very solid for wolf druid if you're trying to do scosglen/rifts with it. Absorbs, decent enough damage and insane amounts of sustain.

[Captcha]

► Show Spoiler

Does skill level 70 give you 60% more total damage over what you can get from a claw? Because that's how much you need to make up for with the attack speed difference.

You're ignoring half of what I wrote - that plus damage multiplied by 8-16 homing missiles may work.

Not sure your maths is right btw.

8 frames. 3.125 attacks per second.

5 frames. 5 attacks per second. 60% more than with 8 fpa.

You can't just multiply it out by 8-16 homing missiles because you can also use Crucify with a claw and get the same extra shards. It all divides out, so it's all about whether or not you actually get enough raw damage with Shadowsabre to make up for the attack speed difference (not even accounting for getting interrupted on later frames of your attack because it's longer) and I've yet to see a build that can.

It would be 60% if it were 3 versus 5, but it's 3.125 as you said.

You cannot compare a claw to the sword unless that claw also has +25 levels to Crucify.
Also, the above discussion was based on you comparing it to

Starhawk

Starhawk
Warp Blade (Sacred)
One-Hand Damage: 49 to 86
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 400
Item Level: 105
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Innate Tri-Elemental Damage: (45.0% of Dexterity)
Area Effect Attack
25% Chance to cast level 50 Magic Missiles on Melee Attack
+(3 to 5) to Sorceress Skill Levels
50% Attack Speed
Adds 400-500 Magic Damage
-(25 to 35)% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (6)

, which doesn't have Crucify therefore you don't have any 8-16 multiplier in play - and Starhawk is Sorc only, so kinda moot really for all those reasons.

As I said, I look for what the item designer may have had in mind rather than simply assume that it doesn't work. And I stress the "may" - it mcould just be a rubbish item, as you believe (for assassin anyway - as others pointed out it might work for a wolf druid, but then why put an assassin-only skill on it if it's meant for a druid?).

[Diaco]

I've tried making that weapon work several times and it never did. Haven't tested in 2.0 though. The bulk of the DMG is magical, so you need life on attack to survive, but life on attack depends hugely on attack frames and with 8fpa you are pretty much screwed.

Also, AoE in crucify is terrible and the DMG has a slight delay, so getting mobbed is certain death

[Siosilvar]

► Show Spoiler

Does skill level 70 give you 60% more total damage over what you can get from a claw? Because that's how much you need to make up for with the attack speed difference.

You're ignoring half of what I wrote - that plus damage multiplied by 8-16 homing missiles may work.

Not sure your maths is right btw.

8 frames. 3.125 attacks per second.

5 frames. 5 attacks per second. 60% more than with 8 fpa.

You can't just multiply it out by 8-16 homing missiles because you can also use Crucify with a claw and get the same extra shards. It all divides out, so it's all about whether or not you actually get enough raw damage with Shadowsabre to make up for the attack speed difference (not even accounting for getting interrupted on later frames of your attack because it's longer) and I've yet to see a build that can.

It would be 60% if it were 3 versus 5, but it's 3.125 as you said.

You cannot compare a claw to the sword unless that claw also has +25 levels to Crucify.
Also, the above discussion was based on you comparing it to

Starhawk

Starhawk
Warp Blade (Sacred)
One-Hand Damage: 49 to 86
(Sorceress Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 400
Item Level: 105
Dexterity Damage Bonus: (0.13 per Dexterity)%
Innate Tri-Elemental Damage: (45.0% of Dexterity)
Area Effect Attack
25% Chance to cast level 50 Magic Missiles on Melee Attack
+(3 to 5) to Sorceress Skill Levels
50% Attack Speed
Adds 400-500 Magic Damage
-(25 to 35)% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
10% Chance to Avoid Damage
Socketed (6)

, which doesn't have Crucify therefore you don't have any 8-16 multiplier in play - and Starhawk is Sorc only, so kinda moot really for all those reasons.

As I said, I look for what the item designer may have had in mind rather than simply assume that it doesn't work. And I stress the "may" - it mcould just be a rubbish item, as you believe (for assassin anyway - as others pointed out it might work for a wolf druid, but then why put an assassin-only skill on it if it's meant for a druid?).

3.125 * 1.6 = 5...

And again, the number of projectiles is a red herring. Starhawk's raw damage vs. Steel Punisher (because both use Bladestorm) and Shadowsabre's raw damage vs. any decent claw (because both can use Crucify) is the factor here. If Starhawk needs that much damage to compete, does +25 to the skill, the orange text, and the flat damage compare at all against a claw?

(well, +45 Crucify, because I expect you'll be using Zayl's Temptation, which has everything you want on it, vs. claw + some other shield)

It's not based on assumptions. It's based on experience watching folks try and fail with it over several years. If you're dedicated to trying it out yourself, just fucking try it! Prove me wrong! I'd be happy to see the item work and not be just a signet drop for me!

Like, straight up, this is from a person who's currently running Chober Chaber and being pleasantly surprised that I can clear Fauztinville with it. I'm no stranger to building around undervalued items. But I just don't see the potential in Shadowsabre.

[Captcha]

This is going round in circles. Thanks for your thoughts, but bye.

[Gotuso]

So a friend found a

Dreamweaver

Dreamweaver
Wrist Blade (Sacred)
(Assassin Only)
Required Level: 100
Required Dexterity: 341
Item Level: 105
Innate Lightning Damage: (52.0% of Dexterity)
Queen of Blades: +2500 Lightning Damage
20% Chance to cast level 12 Charged Strike on Melee Attack
+(4 to 6) to Assassin Skill Levels
Adds 160-250 Lightning Damage
-(15 to 25)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-(15 to 25)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+100 to Strength
+100 to Vitality
Maximum Fire Resist +1%
Maximum Lightning Resist +1%
Socketed (3)

for me and I'm itching to use it. However, the set bonus for

Witchhunter's Attire

Witchhunter's Attire
(Assassin Claw Set)

Witchhunter's Crucifix
Witchhunter's Faith
Witchhunter's Hood
Witchhunter's Ire

Set Bonus with 2 or more set items:
-10% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
Maximum Block Chance +10%

Set Bonus with 3 or more set items:
50% Chance to cast level 24 Crucify on Melee Attack
+150 Life on Melee Attack

Set Bonus with complete set:
+5 to Assassin Skill Levels
-20% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
+15 to Way of the Gryphon (Assassin Only)
25% to Dexterity
Fire Absorb 3%
Lightning Absorb 3%
Cold Absorb 3%
+150 Life on Melee Attack
2% Reanimate as: Returned Archer

is just too good. How many items would I need to replace that set, 3? I have a

Lacuni Cowl

Lacuni Cowl
Skull Cap (Sacred)
Defense: (2865 - 3115) to (2964 - 3222)
Required Level: 90
Required Strength: 550
Item Level: 105
Orb Effects Applied to this Item are Doubled
Adds 150-200 Fire Damage
Adds 150-200 Lightning Damage
-(5 to 20)% to Enemy Fire Resistance
-(5 to 20)% to Enemy Lightning Resistance
+(130 to 150)% Enhanced Defense
Maximum Elemental Resists +(0 to 1)%
2% Reanimate as: Random Monster
Socketed (4)

, so maybe aim for

Hellfire Plate

Hellfire Plate
Body Armors
'IgnJahGurRhal'
Runeword Level: 115
+1% Innate Elemental Damage per 250 Strength and Dexterity
15% Chance to cast level 9 Life Spark on Melee Attack
20% Attack Speed
+250 Fire Damage
-(11 to 15)% to Enemy Elemental Resistances
+(171 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
Maximum Life +(3 to 5)%
Maximum Elemental Resists +(1 to 2)%
Fire Resist +(10 to 20)%
Lightning Resist +(10 to 20)%
Cold Resist +(10 to 20)%
Poison Resist +(10 to 20)%
Physical Resist (7 to 10)%

and that should be enough to make a full swap?

Another item I found is

Klaatu Barada Nikto

Klaatu Barada Nikto
Amulet
Required Level: 110
Item Level: 105
30% Enhanced Damage vs. Necrobots
10% Chance to cast level 40 Nova Bomb on Melee Attack
+2 to All Skills
25% Attack Speed
Adds 1-188 Lightning Damage
+650 Poison Damage over 2 seconds
Stun Attack
+(11 to 16) to Hive
Lightning Resist +(40 to 50)%
Poison Resist +(40 to 50)%

. I have a near perfect

Quov Tsin's Talisman

Quov Tsin's Talisman
Amulet
Required Level: 110
Item Level: 110
15% Innate Elemental Damage
-(20 to 30)% to Enemy Elemental Resistances

, which seems tailor made for the Elemental claw build. But 2 SK, some lightning and poison dmg and stun attack sounds pretty juicy. No idea how good a Nova Bomb is but 16 to Hive sounds good... Which would you pick/recommend?

Last question (for now ): which MO's should I be using? Right now I'm using some crafted jewels to reach caps for Block Speed, Hit recovery and Cast Speed. Should I be using MO's for that instead and just socket everything with perfect Amnythists? Or do I keep my jewels and just add 4 Dex / Vitality to everything?
As for weapons; Life on Attack and + IED, but what is better? And is 4 dmg reduction on rings good at all? Or should I stick to -poison length reduction (assuming resistances are capped)?