Ultimate Skills (Feedback?)

I'd like to see ultimate skills become sub-classes that significantly change how a build is played, but not be required to be taken. Also to have their own (small) skill trees to further enhance the sub-class taken.

If you don't take a sub-class, you could then further enhance your base build from the skill trees you already have access to... Or perhaps a real "mastery" tab or high level skill in your current tree.

ex. Blink has no cooldown but stun removed > Blink deals 100% Weapon damage > Blink stuns for 0.1 second > Blink deals 300% weapon damage
ex. Not taking ultimate/sub-class skill > Ways improved 20% multiplicative per hard point. (high level required passive skill)

Balancing required, but that'd be my idea in a nutshell. To take it further, perhaps the ultimate skills would require a rare item drop to allocate, or during hell progression from Act bosses.

I thinks it's not best way to review ultimate skill separately. They are intended to be complementary things for build, filling its holes or giving new opportunities - something that you couldn't do without it with character. For example Paragon/Curare is used on amazon for filling holes in Defense/Damage, they are just like every day skill but slightly stronger and require only up to15 points. On the other side barb's Gladiator Dominance gives opportunity to build character completely different(and it's actually completely crazy boost, it's just dex on barb doesn't have many other uses so, overall, Gladiator build strength is in most cases pretty average).

Isnt Ultimate skills should be not hole fillers but something that will make your build way stronger ? Like special attack/buff/etc which should be stronger then any regular skill in tree

There should be really no talking about this , the mod needs new content not more power creep changes , if they will buff some ultimate skills they would have to nerf other things otherwise the build will be more op and in the end its just wasted time where it could be used to make new bosses or maps , mod also needs hard challenges with rewards for every ladder and ladder specific events to motivate players not quit after 1 week

morphed wrote:There should be really no talking about this , the mod needs new content not more power creep changes , if they will buff some ultimate skills they would have to nerf other things otherwise the build will be more op and in the end its just wasted time where it could be used to make new bosses or maps , mod also needs hard challenges with rewards for every ladder and ladder specific events to motivate players not quit after 1 week

How many more bosses and maps you need? There are already so much, if the current ones need anything it's buffing, as you also said in some post IIRC. Then again it hurts new players.

Sorry OT. But that feel when you finally get to "90"s to get your ultimate has definitelly gone.

Jampula wrote:
morphed wrote:There should be really no talking about this , the mod needs new content not more power creep changes , if they will buff some ultimate skills they would have to nerf other things otherwise the build will be more op and in the end its just wasted time where it could be used to make new bosses or maps , mod also needs hard challenges with rewards for every ladder and ladder specific events to motivate players not quit after 1 week

How many more bosses and maps you need? There are already so much, if the current ones need anything it's buffing, as you also said in some post IIRC. Then again it hurts new players.

Sorry OT. But that feel when you finally get to "90"s to get your ultimate has definitelly gone.

Exactly buffing them will hurt new players but adding new harder ones won’t , current endgame bosses that have “Impossible” as difficulty no longer accurate , i mean once you hit the level req for the area you can just kill the boss without any gear preparation for bosses up to 130 and that doesn’t seem normal to me , people are already lvl 150 after 10 days of release and quit because there’s not much else to do , if they were to buff the current bosses that would just prolong the time needed to prepare to actually kill them like it used to be in the past and it was all good , if someone can’t kill a boss they have the option to buy the charm , i said that many times but why should endgame stuff be easy for new players there’s really no logic here, look how fast ladders end now compared to before 2.0 just because everything is easier from item drops to maps and bosses .

Jampula wrote:
morphed wrote:Sorry OT. But that feel when you finally get to "90"s to get your ultimate has definitelly gone.

that so true, in old days getting to 90 was so fun, feeling power..... alot of people was going cow levels leveling all chars to see what they can do

The simplest change I'd propose for ultimate skills would be to let you choose any 2 out of the 5 instead of giving everyone the same 2 and a choice of 1/3. In the current system most characters only really benefit from 2 anyway and some only 1. Why give every Necromancer a skill like Graveyard when few builds can actually make good use of it?

You know what feels like a real "Ultimate" skill? Broadside. Not only is it a powerful core part of the character, but it also feels like it's in the wrong place. It's in the Throwing tree, but is used like a Trap and is most effective for Naginata users. It also doesn't provide much value before level 90 when everything is so easy. It aids Naginata build's single target damage for bosses I guess, but that's just a completion speed thing at that level, not difficulty.

Sorceress ultimates are also kind of boring. Casters get more spell damage from Witch Blood and Symbol of Esu, and Fighters get Baneblade to be better at melee, none of which feels any more special than higher stats or actively changes the way you play or build. Skills like Firedance, and Ice Elementals feel much more significant to your build.

SilentSin wrote:
Sorceress ultimates are also kind of boring. Casters get more spell damage from Witch Blood and Symbol of Esu, and Fighters get Baneblade to be better at melee, none of which feels any more special than higher stats or actively changes the way you play or build. Skills like Firedance, and Ice Elementals feel much more significant to your build.

I 100% disagree with this. Both caster and melee sorc would be entirely unviable without their ultimate skills. On the other hand firedance and ice elementals, while nice skills, are not in any way necessary for the builds to work. You can easily test this by trying to kill any Uber past lvl115 without witchblood/baneblade... good luck with that

Diaco wrote:
SilentSin wrote:
Sorceress ultimates are also kind of boring. Casters get more spell damage from Witch Blood and Symbol of Esu, and Fighters get Baneblade to be better at melee, none of which feels any more special than higher stats or actively changes the way you play or build. Skills like Firedance, and Ice Elementals feel much more significant to your build.

I 100% disagree with this. Both caster and melee sorc would be entirely unviable without their ultimate skills. On the other hand firedance and ice elementals, while nice skills, are not in any way necessary for the builds to work. You can easily test this by trying to kill any Uber past lvl115 without witchblood/baneblade... good luck with that

That's precisely what makes them boring. They're passive (or effectively passive) and they're mandatory for those builds. So they aren't an interesting part of gameplay and aren't an interesting part of character building, they're just a skill point tax.

Effective? Yes. Fun? No.