Complaints this season

Zennith wrote:A dev manifesto might be the solvent that gets us unstuck.

tl;dr - Vets and Vets+Newbies are fighting. There has to be a solution that meets in the middle, a dev manifesto that discusses potential solutions might be the best thing to happen to the community.

Very well said, this is the kind of discussion that i was hoping to see.

Well that’s a problem , mxl seems to be a META game now but thats ok unless they add super op builds like scorp blade sin or stormzon , guard twr barb, etc , need proper testing , beta players feedback is not good, so yeah buff the classes just a little instead of making them 3 times better than other builds is a big problem and bring in shadow everything else and lastly some builds cant really be brought to the same level at top builds for example summoner is more like a build for newbies , it would be lame to have these summons destroy content while you stay in the back without being in danger.

morphed wrote:Well that’s a problem , mxl seems to be a META game now but thats ok unless they add super op builds like scorp blade sin or stormzon , guard twr barb, etc , need proper testing , beta players feedback is not good, so yeah buff the classes just a little instead of making them 3 times better than other builds is a big problem and bring in shadow everything else and lastly some builds cant really be brought to the same level at top builds for example summoner is more like a build for newbies , it would be lame to have these summons destroy content while you stay in the back without being in danger.

Again, this is purely base on speculation.

MXL doesn't have league mechanics like PoE does, i'd have to imagine balancing/rework somewhat baked into a season feature, however it's either the beta players are pulling a quick one, or the level of vision/bench mark are not in sync between the testers and devs.

Again, let me rephrase, we are currently in discussion/debate solely based on our own perspective/believe.

I can understand your point of having a summoner build to destroy endgame seemed lame, but i see otherwise.

Taking this summoner topic as example, is there any dev that can come forth and confirm for us?
Stating that in their vision, summoner is a newbie build that are not supposed to push into end game no matter of unlimited TG investment?
What about that neutral din that is speeding in scolsgen in set? do we give him a speeding ticket?

Calling on the devs isn't something I'd recommend. It comes across as unprofessional and hurts your case. I promise the devs are reading this when they have time.

Not speaking for them, but I can confidently say with 100% certainty, they want every skill tree to have the ability to do all of end-game. Otherwise, they'd remove the tree, or re-work it completely. This doesn't mean they won't have varying difficulties in doing so, but that's why you have the option to re-spec.

Edit: I should also add, I believe any tree that can't do 100% of the content, will in the future. I completely believe these trees are currently being worked on as we speak and will be showcased in future seasons.

Zennith wrote:Calling on the devs isn't something I'd recommend. It comes across as unprofessional and hurts your case. I promise the devs are reading this when they have time.

Not speaking for them, but I can confidently say with 100% certainty, they want every skill tree to have the ability to do all of end-game. Otherwise, they'd remove the tree, or re-work it completely. This doesn't mean they won't have varying difficulties in doing so, but that's why you have the option to re-spec.

I would apologize if my replies seemed so.

No, i have no bad intention towards the devs, like i mentioned in earlier post, devs are real human beings that has sacrificed their own limited time for decades keeping this mod alive and going, if anything they have my utmost respect.

In a two way discussion, we always risk agitating the other party by bringing up a discussion/debate, to me, that is normal, i hope that everyone is mature enough to handle things in a civilized way.

In my previous reply, Morphed expressed his opinion on summoner seemed lame to be breaking into endgame, while i see otherwise, and tried to rebuttal with an example of a neutraldin in set.

But there will be no end to the discussion/debate until a fair party shows up and gives us a benchmark, i'm suggesting that we need a benchmark.

As i have rephrased again and again, we are currently discussing/debating based on own perspective/believes, and i believe at the current crossroad, the only fair party that can make the calls would be the devs.

heamn wrote:We need more elaboration and examples in our discussion.

With my most recent interaction in short question thread, it seems to me that some players don't know enough to know that they don't know, or lack information on even asking the right question with keywords.

We need a clear benchmark on this so call "pros" and "noobs" group, see my latest feedback thread on barb summoning, am i a noob for trying to push barb summoner to Scolsgen? Should i be satisfied that the build is so much shittier compared with some dude with neutral din set can just breeze thru it with winks and flying kisses. or hell, i can just respec the barb to another form guard tower build.

If i give in to trade, go for fotm builds and play those very narrowly selected top OP builds to push into Lab10 with eyes closed, does that makes me a pro now?

in my opinion, this calls for a required balancing, hence we need a benchmark, how the dev visioned Scolsgen supposed to be, do we want it to be as easy as the winking flying kissing neutral din in set?

or do we push it as hard as the HC clawsin Russian streamer that did Lab with superb careful backtrack, kiting, observe for timing and go in for some deeps and retreat again in a super butt clenching vibe?

If you're talking about me using the Neutraldin set to clear Scosglen that's largely because I didn't want to invest in items beyond the set because it would cost more TG. I would rather farm Scosglen at a slightly slower pace with the set rather than buy BIS items for better/faster clear. That being said, there's no doubt that the set is strong but that's probably because unlike most sets in Median XL, the neutral set does not require a weapon or shield making it scale better than standard sets since you can mix and match weapon/shield as you wish, while only needing to assemble the set + boots + rings + ammy - It's a huge timer saver. The set needs a slight nerf STAT wise, but nothing significant like replacing a piece with a weapon/shield instead. The comparison between neutraldin using the set and your summoner barb struggling in Scos, as you mentioned, is pretty skewed since it's common knowledge (for experienced players) that summoners have always been lackluster at farming while neutral Paladin excels at farming, so knowledgeable players looking to farm Scos would not bring a summoner into it (again, if you are an experienced player).

This is the part where it sucks to be a new player or someone who hasn't been around asking questions for whatever reason, which is fair; you shouldn't have to ask questions but unfortunately, there exists a gap in the game, where not only is it still in development, but there is a lack of proper feedback. When you made that summon barb thread you definitely brought the proper attention it needed to get looked at. The devs aren't all-knowing (other than SB and not Marco no kappa) and they probably would've never noticed this if you didn't take the time to do it, so I definitely believe summoner barb will change for the better, because if it doesn't Marco is most likely getting burned at the stake via a witchhunt.

Also just remember that even if summoner barb does get buffs, it might not be as you envisioned it because a lot of classes or builds usually fulfil a "role" or in other words a niche. It might not even get any farming buffs if it doesn't fall in line with their development ideas. This is an incredibly important thing to understand because you'll notice many classes with "roles" in this game. Bear druid for example is one of the more obvious ones with a specific role in mind, where it excels in slaying bosses and having most of the tools readily available to challenge Dimensional Labyrinth whereas farming with Bear is a disaster. But yeah if Summoner barb doesn't get buffed just flame Marco.

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Elendilli wrote:
heamn wrote:We need more elaboration and examples in our discussion.

With my most recent interaction in short question thread, it seems to me that some players don't know enough to know that they don't know, or lack information on even asking the right question with keywords.

We need a clear benchmark on this so call "pros" and "noobs" group, see my latest feedback thread on barb summoning, am i a noob for trying to push barb summoner to Scolsgen? Should i be satisfied that the build is so much shittier compared with some dude with neutral din set can just breeze thru it with winks and flying kisses. or hell, i can just respec the barb to another form guard tower build.

If i give in to trade, go for fotm builds and play those very narrowly selected top OP builds to push into Lab10 with eyes closed, does that makes me a pro now?

in my opinion, this calls for a required balancing, hence we need a benchmark, how the dev visioned Scolsgen supposed to be, do we want it to be as easy as the winking flying kissing neutral din in set?

or do we push it as hard as the HC clawsin Russian streamer that did Lab with superb careful backtrack, kiting, observe for timing and go in for some deeps and retreat again in a super butt clenching vibe?

If you're talking about me using the Neutraldin set to clear Scosglen that's largely because I didn't want to invest in items beyond the set because it would cost more TG. I would rather farm Scosglen at a slightly slower pace with the set rather than buy BIS items for better/faster clear. That being said, there's no doubt that the set is strong but that's probably because unlike most sets in Median XL, the neutral set does not require a weapon or shield making it scale better than standard sets since you can mix and match weapon/shield as you wish, while only needing to assemble the set + boots + rings + ammy - It's a huge timer saver. The set needs a slight nerf STAT wise, but nothing significant like replacing a piece with a weapon/shield instead. The comparison between neutraldin using the set and your summoner barb struggling in Scos, as you mentioned, is pretty skewed since it's common knowledge (for experienced players) that summoners have always been lackluster at farming while neutral Paladin excels at farming, so knowledgeable players looking to farm Scos would not bring a summoner into it (again, if you are an experienced player).

This is the part where it sucks to be a new player or someone who hasn't been around asking questions for whatever reason, which is fair; you shouldn't have to ask questions but unfortunately, there exists a gap in the game, where not only is it still in development, but there is a lack of proper feedback. When you made that summon barb thread you definitely brought the proper attention it needed to get looked at. The devs aren't all-knowing (other than SB and not Marco no kappa) and they probably would've never noticed this if you didn't take the time to do it, so I definitely believe summoner barb will change for the better, because if it doesn't Marco is most likely getting burned at the stake via a witchhunt.

Also just remember that even if summoner barb does get buffs, it might not be as you envisioned it because a lot of classes or builds usually fulfil a "role" or in other words a niche. It might not even get any farming buffs if it doesn't fall in line with their development ideas. This is an incredibly important thing to understand because you'll notice many classes with "roles" in this game. Bear druid for example is one of the more obvious ones with a specific role in mind, where it excels in slaying bosses and having most of the tools readily available to challenge Dimensional Labyrinth whereas farming with Bear is a disaster. But yeah if Summoner barb doesn't get buffed just flame Marco.

viewtopic.php?p=568354#p568354
Hope that you can read this before we proceed for any further misunderstanding, i apologize if you are upset being used in an example of imbalance.
Would love to get more input at which part that i flamed or name called the devs

heamn wrote:
viewtopic.php?p=568354#p568354
Hope that you can read this before we proceed for any further misunderstanding, i apologize if you are upset being used in an example of imbalance.
Would love to get more input at which part that i flamed or name called the devs

There's nothing to be upset about if you've read what I wrote and also it was humor. There was nothing about flaming or name calling of devs. It's just memes. I don't know if you're using google translate or something but there is no negative implication in what I wrote. The parts you're referencing are all memes.

Summoner barb has cleared red labyrinth maps before when lab was harder and the skill tree was weaker, now you even have a solid single target skill for the build which imo why is that even added to the build ,i thought its supposed to summon minios and let them do the killings, making summ barb to clear as fast as other top farming builds would make the build op, maybe we should talk about how bad melee necro is for farming i bet hes much weaker at farming scosg than your summon barb, and btw the current patch rework has made the summons atleast 3 times more powerful, and lastly i think the best approach would be nerfing other strong builds than buffing more because that will create more problems and will require even more buffs coz other builds will feel weaker,

morphed wrote:Summoner barb has cleared red labyrinth maps before when lab was harder and the skill tree was weaker, now you even have a solid single target skill for the build which imo why is that even added to the build ,i thought its supposed to summon minios and let them do the killings, making summ barb to clear as fast as other top farming builds would make the build op, maybe we should talk about how bad melee necro is for farming i bet hes much weaker at farming scosg than your summon barb, and btw the current patch rework has made the summons atleast 3 times more powerful, and lastly i think the best approach would be nerfing other strong builds than buffing more because that will create more problems and will require even more buffs coz other builds will feel weaker,

I'm intrigued, any further information i can get for this sum barb spec that cleared red lab?

I totally agreed that balancing is required, either bringing the overall ceiling up/down, this depends on how Scolsgen and contents afterward was envisioned.