A comparison of how builds function in Median XL from 1-130

Discuss Median XL!
bohoTV
Invader
8 | 2
Bliyadolubov wrote:May be UMP is bad build, but i personaly see no isue in it, i played it from level 1 and didnt sweat compare to HMP. The build tree didnt change so much since sigma release. If you dont know how to not struggle it doest meat that build is bad, may be it bad only for you

That's the beauty of objective data: this isn't just my experience. We can look at factual performance free of feelings or emotional attachment.

That data shows Ritualist (of any kind) underperforming in every field, finding itself in the bottom quartile of all ratings except for the "1-100 Sub 5 hour characters on ladder start" population, where it was average.
User avatar
cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
1077 | 26
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Sry but "The build tree didnt change so much since sigma release" is very not true. UMP was nerfed a lot ever since 1.4 or 1.5 patch, iirc. Back in 1.4/1.5, it was good. But now, it is trash.

And unfortunately, they still have no plan to buff UMP or the whole pally class in 2.6 patch. Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked. Btw, bloodzon is op in 2.4/2.5 patch with blood relic. If no fix to ama blood relic in 2.6 patch, bloodzon is gonna stay op in 2.6 with blood relic.
Bliyadolubov
Grubber
314 | 10
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Sry but "The build tree didnt change so much since sigma release" is very not true. UMP was nerfed a lot ever since 1.4 or 1.5 patch, iirc. Back in 1.4/1.5, it was good. But now, it is trash.

And unfortunately, they still have no plan to buff UMP or the whole pally class in 2.6 patch. Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked. Btw, bloodzon is op in 2.4/2.5 patch with blood relic. If no fix to ama blood relic in 2.6 patch, bloodzon is gonna stay op in 2.6 with blood relic.

Ok, i got the point. Didnt know he was nerfed A LOT
User avatar
cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
1077 | 26
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Bliyadolubov wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Sry but "The build tree didnt change so much since sigma release" is very not true. UMP was nerfed a lot ever since 1.4 or 1.5 patch, iirc. Back in 1.4/1.5, it was good. But now, it is trash.

And unfortunately, they still have no plan to buff UMP or the whole pally class in 2.6 patch. Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked. Btw, bloodzon is op in 2.4/2.5 patch with blood relic. If no fix to ama blood relic in 2.6 patch, bloodzon is gonna stay op in 2.6 with blood relic.

Ok, i got the point. Didnt know he was nerfed A LOT

That is the beauty of statistic data.

For now, if u compare UMP with melee sorc this ladder, UMP is absolutely trash.
And if u followed the changes of pal from 1.4/1.5 patch all the way long till now which is 2.5 patch, it is clearly that UMP has been nerfed a lot by far.
And more important, UMP is bad, for now. And that is enough.

And I highly recommend those who feel UMP is good and strong to start their first char as UMP in the coming 2.6 ladder. Since UMP is strong and such a fast season starter.
Siosilvar
Cow Ninja
1223 | 265
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Great Love Badge
Earned over 100 cookies
Great Guide Badge
Created 3 complete character guides
You can say a lot of things with statistics, doesn't mean that's the full picture. Most things are trash if you compare them to melee sorc this patch. :coolstorybob:

Funny to compare him to when he was outright overpowered right after the rework...
User avatar
Frytas
Onyx Knight
614 | 97
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked. Btw, bloodzon is op in 2.4/2.5 patch with blood relic. If no fix to ama blood relic in 2.6 patch, bloodzon is gonna stay op in 2.6 with blood relic.

2 questions, where did you get the info on what they're reworking/rebalancing in the next patch? And which blood relic do you mean?
User avatar
cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
1077 | 26
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Frytas wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:Devs keep focusing on ama class in 2.6 after javazon/stormzon/bloodzon/bowzon got reworked. Btw, bloodzon is op in 2.4/2.5 patch with blood relic. If no fix to ama blood relic in 2.6 patch, bloodzon is gonna stay op in 2.6 with blood relic.

2 questions, where did you get the info on what they're reworking/rebalancing in the next patch? And which blood relic do you mean?

Blood relic means Blood of Creation (Ama)
Image
Spirit of Vengeance from ama blood relic provides much more spell dmg than it should do.
Normal SoV off/on:
Image
Image
Bugged SoV from blood relic off/on:
Image
Image

Normally, SoV provides 184% F/L/M spell dmg, sth like that. But with bugged SoV from blood relic, u will get 675%-356%=319% spell dmg! And more excessive, if u use some + all skill level gear to precast SoV, u can get even more spell dmg.

U can tell bloodzon should be op with this blood relic in late/end game if u ever played bloodzon or tried searing glow/singularity oskills recently. And ofc, stormzon will also get huge promotion with this blood relic. But bloodzon with it is just too good, huge hp pool and huge life regen as a caster with high dmg. Actually, less than 10 mins a T10 run in late game and easy 5 pillar deimos!

As for the next patch, let's just wait for the announcement.
Edited by cnlnjzfjb 10 months.
User avatar
cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
1077 | 26
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Siosilvar wrote:You can say a lot of things with statistics, doesn't mean that's the full picture. Most things are trash if you compare them to melee sorc this patch. :coolstorybob:

Funny to compare him to when he was outright overpowered right after the rework...

U dont have to compare UMP to any meta bds right now or itself when it was overpowered, just compare it to regular/average bds now, it is below average level in many ways, which is just a matter of fact. We all know UMP is bad now, it takes nothing to admit it.


In fact, I dont give a fucking care UMP or pal is good or not. If it keeps being not good, I just dont play it, nothing big. Im just telling some truth, not asking for anything, rework or buffs. When I see builds below average level are recommended to newbies, I just feel I need to tell the truth and recommend them not to start with those builds which are actually already not very friendly to newbies. That is it.

And my final and only word about UMP now is still like that: If anyone feels UMP now is a fast sc starter, then I highly recommend them to start as UMP next season. Btw, plz tell me how many hours does it take to make it lvl 130 or lvl 140 ssf if anyone starts as UMP next sc ladder. Im curious about their levelling speed as UMP, in case it is just me bad and slow at playing UMP, not UMP bad.
User avatar
Frytas
Onyx Knight
614 | 97
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
cnlnjzfjb wrote:blood of creating relic etc
Thx for the detailed answer. I've seen you posting about this before. Yeah it's definitely bugged and should be fixed, but I don't think it should be taken into consideration for the purpose of balancing, I mean how many people realistically are going to have this relic lol. I think it's meant to be gamebreakingly op for the very few that can get it. Just fix the numbers so they match the normal SoV.

And regarding the other question, I've not seen any teasers on the next patch yet, so I thought I just missed some thread about it or something, that's all.
User avatar
cnlnjzfjb
Horadric Mage
1077 | 26
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Frytas wrote:
cnlnjzfjb wrote:blood of creating relic etc
Thx for the detailed answer. I've seen you posting about this before. Yeah it's definitely bugged and should be fixed, but I don't think it should be taken into consideration for the purpose of balancing, I mean how many people realistically are going to have this relic lol. I think it's meant to be gamebreakingly op for the very few that can get it. Just fix the numbers so they match the normal SoV.

And regarding the 2nd question, I've not seen any teasers regarding the next patch yet, so I thought I just missed some thread about it or something, that's all.

1. Blood relics are not as rare as u thought or stated above this ladder, Im sure. Me, myself, did like 20-30 Darkness of Heart runs this ladder. Quite a few players around me farmed it this ladder, with bear, melee sorc, xbow and azure pal....Yes, they not only did or passed, they actually farmed it! One of them even did it like 90+ times this ladder. And It is quite easy to get an ama blood relic from market. I can tell that u r not familiar with recent sc trade market from ur words, maybe u r not playing recent patches much. In fact, ama blood relic is not that expensive on market, which means it is not that rare as u stated. U want to know how many ppl can actually have this relic? Just wait for the season data coming out, I can only say for sure, more than u stated or thought.


2. Despite the rarity, it is not as hard as u thought to get an ama blood relic. Since it is not very expensive on market. U can easily get 1 if u want this ladder, without paying too much.

3. Ur point makes some sense, but not much. Nerfed/fixed or not, it does not depend or only depend on the rarity. If it actually breaks the balance much or bugged heavily, then it should be nerfed or fixed. How many ppl can have azure? According to ur point, not too many (In fact, I think azures are too many drops nowadays in ladder and should be nerfed with drop rate. U can easily buy one for 200-300tg in late ladder, lol). But azure itself and azure bds have already been reworked/nerfed many times although azure is rare; How many ppl can have tyrael? But that does not contradict with wyrd sorc being op and nerfed and tyrael nerfed next patch; How many ppl can afford 6 Gorefest relics in old versions to make their bear reaching 3 fpa attack speed or even 2 fpa? Very few, yes. But still that does not contradict with old bear being op with possible super fast attack speed and then the mechanism of bear/wolf reworked to limit their attack speed to 6/5 fpa. It does not get away with being reworked just because, as u said, only very few ppl could afford 4-6 Gorefest relics in old versions.