median xl difficulty index 2 stars (down from 5)

Discuss Median XL!
Siosilvar
Cow Ninja
1223 | 265
Common Posting Badge
Posted over 1.000 messages
Great Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 50.000 views
Great Love Badge
Earned over 100 cookies
Great Guide Badge
Created 3 complete character guides
Marrt wrote:
Siosilvar wrote:2. as for notarmory privacy? the only thing that gives me fuzzier feelings than people showing off their insecurity by complaining about notarmory is the cries of those banned for RMT. the game is *not* healthier when new players don't have any idea what their goals look like, get over it.

Casual this, casual that. If someone can be just as good as you are by copying your build, you're not as good as you think you are. :)


I don't agree with this. The game difficulty has been decreasing over the time and the skill factor only plays a role for very few late-game ubers and even there, your build plays a more important role. You cannot kill 100% deimoss with a shit build. You can kill samael with non-optimized build if you are skillful and can dodge well for a long time, but if you have bis gear, this factor is very limited. Ofc if you copy someone else's build that melts ubers, you will be able to make that too. So in my opinion, being able to create a build should play an important role in the game.

There's plenty of guides out there that can be used as a way to start and learn the game and ubers up to lvl 125-130 should be achievable by the most people. But endgame is where you should be expected to start thinking by yourself.. and notarmory is used as a way to copy lvl 150 chars. Whether it's havoc sorc or some other OP build next season, it does not really matter - if these builds melt bosses, then everyone with copied items will be able to do the same thing.


...absolutely all of which stems from balance issues and the dev team lacking clearly communicated direction. 2.0 stepped up the minimum bar for builds to be viable because most of it was balanced around the busted state of clawsin during beta, and every build has risen up to around that point because it turns out the vast majority of people just want to play the damn game, not be arbitrarily walled 20 hours in because they don't know how to improve from there.

Hiding shit from people accomplishes diddly squat to resolve it, and in fact just makes the issue worse because it provides us with no information about what to change. If everyone's copying the same build, the issue becomes obvious - like the fact that only zon and sin have any real variety in labbing builds, with over 50% of other classes on throwbarb, fire bear, crossbow, UHM, or Havoc (and Havoc alone is played twice as much as any other *class*).

I think I speak for the entire team, for once, when I say we have no interest in making anti-competitive changes just to appease some people's egos. Balance at the top end is definitely in a sorry state, but we'll address it by changing the balance, not by privileging some players over others.
User avatar
berry117
Dark Wanderer
802 | 78
Legendary Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 250.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Showcase Badge
Median XL Broadcaster
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
ITT: lab players be like
PeterHatEater
Bone Archer
76 | 18
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
The game is getting easier due to a number of factors.

Players are getting better. They are faster at leveling, better at doing end game fights like Sam and are more knowledgeable and therefore better at gearing. There are more (and more accessible) charms (Dulra, Dim Key, etc.), charms are getting better and better (Uber upgrades, Sleep improvements for non WPD builds, Lylia's with +1 MR, etc) and classes are being reworked and buffed.

For the average player, the game is still very difficult. Most players don't have access to unlimited tg and many find Scos challenging. I still find Sam and Deimoss difficult (and Laz impossible :wall:) despite hitting 150 in multiple seasons.

There are still a lot of really balanced builds like Bloodzon, Psionic Sin, Throw Barb etc that can do all the content, are incredibly fun and aren't game breaking.

I think we need to remember that MXL isn't a zero sum game. Everyone knowing your build doesn't change your ability to play the game in any way. People enjoying playing strong builds shouldn't reduce your enjoyment. In fact, enabling average players to enjoy strong builds brings more people into the community, which enhances the longevity and economy of the game.
blatkill
Core Lord
388 | 32
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
PeterHatEater wrote:The game is getting easier due to a number of factors.

Players are getting better. They are faster at leveling, better at doing end game fights like Sam and are more knowledgeable and therefore better at gearing. There are more (and more accessible) charms (Dulra, Dim Key, etc.), charms are getting better and better (Uber upgrades, Sleep improvements for non WPD builds, Lylia's with +1 MR, etc) and classes are being reworked and buffed.

For the average player, the game is still very difficult. Most players don't have access to unlimited tg and many find Scos challenging. I still find Sam and Deimoss difficult (and Laz impossible :wall:) despite hitting 150 in multiple seasons.

There are still a lot of really balanced builds like Bloodzon, Psionic Sin, Throw Barb etc that can do all the content, are incredibly fun and aren't game breaking.

I think we need to remember that MXL isn't a zero sum game. Everyone knowing your build doesn't change your ability to play the game in any way. People enjoying playing strong builds shouldn't reduce your enjoyment. In fact, enabling average players to enjoy strong builds brings more people into the community, which enhances the longevity and economy of the game.


Agree with all the content of this post.

I'll just add one point : make charms attached to a character and both difficulties/longevity will be increase a lot.
tempmail
Cog
204 | 3
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Can someone explain why The Warmage set is op? What I'm I missing?
Diaco
Void Archon
885 | 43
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
tempmail wrote:Can someone explain why The Warmage set is op? What I'm I missing?


it's op specifically for havoc, because it has a huge energy bonus which allows easy access to 0 cooldown
Ruubel
Onyx Knight
645 | 12
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
Everyone knowing your build doesn't change your ability to play the game in any way.

Correct. Very few, if any, top builds are dumb one skill, click ok builds. You must understand nyances, reasoning and to know why, what and when and when not. When to add UMO-s and if not what are alternatives. Or what boss does and when and what next.

Havoc at this season is an accident, not a devilish planning.
User avatar
Inno86
Balrog
138 | 11
Common Auction Badge
Won 50 auctions
The only issue with Havoc is that it's easily playable w/o cooldown just by using the set. Guarantee you, w/o the set it's a very endgame build requiring a lot of efforts to build (or a lot of tg, depending if you trade or not). If the set is reworked and doesn't give a ton of energy, then havoc can still be used.

Rather than the game becoming easier, it's just players are improving. For me, after 4 years playing on and off, I can finally do all ubers up to 130. At the beginning Kabraxis almost made me quit, then Valthek.. now it's Samael. My understanding of the game changed over the years and for sure now I know the fights much better. Do I miss the old (1.x) Astrogha? Sure, but it's not like it was hard. Just need to get used to the fight. Same for the witch when required purify.. once you know the requirements and what to do, it became a piece of cake. Same as Lazarus and so on. It's true charms now gives more bonuses, but there were also other changes to nerf gear, limit 2 UMOs.. no more perfect sphere, no more +1 all zann esu jewels.. so overall the game I think kept the same difficulty. You may argue purify fights are a little bit easier bcs of the speed of purify projectile was increased. But that's it.
I think the effort right now is to increase the variety of options for each class. But I cannot complain about the game becoming easy. I have yet to kill Samael once, Deimoss same... The final boss, I don't even dream about it :) so what are we talking about?
And while I can share the feeling on notarmory being open, in the end what is the matter? For me, I'd like to have my unique build but it's rather impossible in any case. As other said, it's mostly an ego thing.

The only thing I would change is making it impossible to trade charms or transfer charms from on character to another :) I have been saying this for ages. Most players just buy charms and trophies, and farm endgame content. But I understand this is not very reasonable to do, because would make unhappy many people.
midknight
Pit Knight
106 | 59
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
Ruubel wrote:Havoc at this season is an accident, not a devilish planning.


For the last seven season in 2.x now they have this though. Javazon in 2.0, 2.1 (although mid game was kind of slow), Scorpsin in 2.2 which deleted labs (although early mid game was slow), Free 800 ewd for druids especially bear. In 2.6 Bowazon which destroyed early mid game in tu's and could do scosglen in tu's. Melee sorc which destroyed the game in tu's and could do scosglen in tu's and now Havoc. Wyrd sorc I think was a genuine mistake seeing that particular interaction was not an obvious one.
midknight
Pit Knight
106 | 59
Common Popularity Badge
Has a thread with over 10.000 views
Common Love Badge
Earned over 20 cookies
Common Supporter Badge
Donated 1 time
Common Guide Badge
Created a complete character guide
huangyunshy wrote:BOSS are getting easier and easier, especially spiders and sleep, which are not difficult at all.

I agree a lot of the bosses have been nerfed giyua, infernal machine, samuel. phoboss, baal ( although binding of baal is a bit harder now though :D ) plus the reworked build seem to be stronger than the previous builds. The boss teleport change has further trivialised bosses. They dont really have any defensive mechanic now :( .

t4v wrote:Many years ago the main concept of Median was to be one of the hardest mods ever made. I truly believe that many of the old players even devs fell in love with this game exactly cause of this. You needed a different preparation for almost every uber ...If we exclude Samael and Deimoss ,now is like "Oh, wait me 5 min i forgot to take my CFM and QT". Most of the charms have no value after first 2 3 days ...just because they became so easy. It's good for new players but also kills market so quick. The game is really easy nowadays ,so goblins are totally useless imo. As Lynderika said ..drop should be a reward ,not a gift.


Every season the balance of Median has shifted away from being a challenging mod.