Suggestions for upcoming patch

AndreasKieling wrote:Still no argument here. Well ofc in clod they are farming normal countess for low runes to cube them up to zod, even if they need millions of low runes and it is not worthy in any point, but ofc "there's a lot of people who would spend HOURS" to do that.

To get a character which can farm dunc is not a high task. Farming dunc would still be more viable, because you find 1-10 su´s per run + side drop.

But ok, you guys dont like gamble, i get it. I should rather suggest to remove gamble completely from the game, because it is crap until now. We cant upgrade it cause it would leads the players to stuck at IOTSS for the rest of their lives and duncraig would be the cave of loneliness for deckhart cain.

Youre comparing clod's normal countess runes (runes arent affected by %mf and countess is always guaranteed drop so wat) with median's destruction ilvl items. Nice argument. I play both median and clod. Clod on bnet, and i can tell you that no one farms normal countess for runes to turn them into Zod, unless you mean countess bots but even so, its never in normal, its on Hell ofc, because countess hell can also drop Key of Terror iirc. So yeah what you said has no logic.

True , getting a character to farm dunc is relatively simple once you get the right mid range gear, in fact depending on the character and build dest fauzt can be harder than Duncraig. But if SUs were gamblable the economy would be screwed even sooner than usual because there'd be an even easier way to get SUs than dunc even with a low ratio, and thats my argument. If gold wasnt an abundant resource drop then i'd be more inclined to agree. You might not care about realm's economy but most people do.

AndreasKieling wrote:Did you guys even read what i wrote?

Yes I did.

AndreasKieling wrote:Omg, you act as i would suggest to add su´s to basic vendor items -.-
Lol i never said, that you have just to buy su at vendor. I said that su should be gambled with low ratio.

Not possible. You can't balance it in a way that gambling would be less effective than farming. If you are quick in clicking and checking you basically "drop" unidentified items way faster while gambling than you ever could while farming. Thus gambling would be overused. And considering how easy it is to get gold in median (pick up rares and sell, socket throwing weapons with runes and sell...) you can farm Terror all day long to gamble a whole day sacred items. BUT you can't reduce those methods for gold gaining because you always need gold for basically everything, which is quite expensive. Especially repairing runewords is expensive enough for those easy gold-gain methods to have validate reason of existence.

AndreasKieling wrote:Well ofc you can run terror ubers to get gold to gamble su, yes. But it would be easier to just play the game until you can farm tran athulua or something like that.

What's easier for a untwinked throwsin? Gambling all day long or struggling to kill even 1 enemy on dest?

AndreasKieling wrote:I dont accept that sacred items are endgame stuff, cause they just aren´t. I played this mod two months ago the first time, after the first day i was in terror with full t6. second day 120 and dest. on third day farmed already ta on dest and got my first sacred uniques. sacred uniques, sets, sacred items in general are basic game content.

You are totally confusing what I said earlier. Endgame stuff =/= Midgame stuff. The midgame starts when you reach 120 and can do the first few uber/charms. Ofc you most of the time have T6 items. That's exactly how I told you it went. The lategame basically starts when you're starting the last 5-10 ubers that you still didn't beat yet. If you really think that at this point you still have TU items, then... well I'm sorry, but this is just a daydream.
Sacred items ARE endgame stuff. And Endgame doesn't start with you reaching lvl 120.

AndreasKieling wrote:In clod you can get the total endgame rare items by gambling. You can gamble an rare amulet which could be worth few thousand fg, which is like many full equipped endgame characters. The possibility is there, always, with low ratio ofc, but it is there. Does it change the whole clod gameplay, cause everyone is now visiting gheed? No. So why you think it would totally ruin median? THIS does not make sense.

Okay let me explain to you why your logic is flawed: First of all you're comparing 2 games that are very different in all aspects.

aspect 1: I liked that in D2 you were able to wear your endgame gear by lvl 47. But that will never be the case in median simply because the game doesn't stop once you reached the max level. On the contrary, the game really only starts when you reach max level. The whole system of the game is completely different while it is still the same genre. CLoD is grinding for experience and loot. Median is grinding for loot. If you take that grinding, what stays? Nothing. Absolutely nothing except for 40 ubers that you can magically do after gambling 40 hours.

aspect 2: Being able to gamble the best items is a stupid idea considering just how high the droprates are. because the higher the droprates, the higher the chance to gamble something godlike. And trust me, the droprates are high enough for anyone to find something nice, sell it on the forum for TG and/or trade it for what you need. Except for SP. But just ask Chuck because he has every item laying in his stash, and I'm sure he's willing to trade it with you/give it to you for free.

aspect 3: In median you can reroll a rare amulett with d2clicker until it has the perfect stats that you wish without the need of gold. So a rare amu as an example is really not a good idea.

And now let me sum it up so you can (hopefully) fully understand the problem:
There are 2 categories of items. Tiered items are items for early game (until 120) and for the start of the midgame (first few charms). After that you get Sacred items.
Sacred items are endgame items. It doesn't matter whether you accept that or not, because that is a fact. Giving the player the opportunity to easily get sacred items with the chance of getting a unique version of it by simply gambling, people would rather gamble to progress faster. The positive aspect of introducing sacred items in gamble stores, which is what you are seeking is exactly what the problem is. You want to progress faster. You would abuse that method to get the item you want. But you don't see that there are already multiple methods to get what you want. Trading. Enchanting Crystal. Farming. Everything has it's fun parts. The only thing that isn't fun is gambling that's why it's taken out.

You can't compare d2 to median. They are completely different games in the same genre.

btw: I didn't say anything about the removal of keys, just like I did in my last posts, because i simply don't care about buying them regularly. So I didn't quote that part.

thunderman wrote:I think you're wrong and you don't really need to be ironic, Prime Evil explained everything in his last post.

Well first time i was ironic in english and someone noticed i used ironie, lol. Thanks.
Prime_Evil said the same he said in his post before. He fears that su in gambling would leads the players to run easy dungeons for gold, to get "easily" highend gear. This would be something that only depends on the ratio for su on gambling. If the ratio is by far lower than getting any su from a monster, the problem he might see is not existent anymore, cause it just will not pay out to farm gold for gambling only. It will just be an option as ADDITION to normal farming methods, to get a SLIGHTLY higher possibility to get a SPECIFIC item, that you need.

@LH

Yes the current ladder gambling is a part of the game. But it is in the current ladder, not in general. Otherwise you need gamble only if you want to create a tu and need a base or magic ring+amu for a cube recipe.
You dont need to create a new entire function. You just have to remove the part of the comment, that removes the bought item from gambling window. Adding su to gambling should also not be a problem.

@Prime_Evil
This comparision was a joke, to show you your type of argument. You say only because it is possible to gamble a sacred unique with very low ratio, all would do that. Would be like normal countess runs for zod, just because it is possible. Ofc no one do this. Same like no one would spend hours on farming gold to spend hours at gheed for a very low chance to get a single sacred unique, if he or she is not in a hard need for this item.
Economy? You can buy sssu´s with good stats for about 100sigs.
Easier way for getting su than dunc? ta? nihlathak? diablo? any dest monster? It is already easy to get a sacred unique, but its goddamn hard to get a specific single one.
The gold/vendor price struggle is easily handled by raising up the price for gambling.

@HechtHeftig
Hab aufgehört zu lesen nachdem du mir weismachen wolltest, dass Glückspiel etwas mit MF zu tun hat.

AndreasKieling wrote:@HechtHeftig
Hab aufgehört zu lesen nachdem du mir weismachen wolltest, dass Glückspiel etwas mit MF zu tun hat.

I just googled and you were right. That doesn't matter though since the rest of the text contains only facts. Go on and read again, then you'll see why your logic is flawed.

And don't talk in other languages here. This is an international board. Don't be rude and write in English so everyone can understand.

So... you want gambling SUs to be rare enough to not be viable compared to farming, but it still has to be a viable way of getting one specific piece? That does not make any sense. As it is, getting a t5-6 of a specific type, of any quality, can take 10+ minutes if you're unlucky. Make that unique and it can take hours, but gambling an SU should supposedly be rarer than a TU. Spending 10+ hours gambling for a chance at a specific SU (let alone SSU or SSSU!) would not be fun. At all. The only thing it'd result in is people botting it.

"The gold/vendor price struggle is easily handled by raising up the price for gambling."
No. It's not. Even if it cost 370 million gold, requiring 99% price reduction and maxed stash and char just to buy one sacred, all you'd add is a minute or two between attempts. Because - surprise - at that point you can buy anything in a shop (apples are a personal favorite) and sell it back for twenty times as much.

Edit: But let's assume we really want gamble-able SUs. It should take... hmm... one hour to get enough gold, through regular gameplay, to afford to gamble a sacred. Price reduction is removed so you can't just get gold that way, gold-rains like grubbers are removed to prevent excessive farming, and sell prices are reduced greatly. We have now fixed the cost issue! But wait, repair prices and gold drops need to be rebalanced, as do costs of consumables. Everything needs to be tested to ensure it's somewhat balanced. And we still havn't addressed the issue of spending ten minutes or more just to have the item type show up in the gamble window in the first place.

All-in-all, that's quite possibly over a hundred hours of work just for a single feature that may or may not be obsolete by the time Sigma rolls around.

Still, solution is just to set d2clicker to gamble for you. How to do that? I have no idea. I've only ever used it for dragon egg rolling and shrine crafting, but it's possible. Perhaps shnurr214 knows how to do it. He's messed with clicker a decent amount. I can't remember who, off the top of my head, but there are people who've set it to gamble until their inventory is full.

Otherwise, Terror Fauztinville is likely your best bet if you want rare amulets/rings. In my experience, the rare jewelry drops a lot more often on Fauzt, not just because its a smaller drop pool to select from in terms of item rarity, but it's also more easily farmable, while still having the chance for sets, shrines, etc.

Well, D2clicker use a "routine" to do his job. If u want to gamble a specific item you either have to use a program which checks for the image or itemcode, i think both ways would end in a ban because of botting.
You could only use D2clicker to gamble everything random from pos X to pos Y.

I think that's a great idea. This game is like 50% hack n slash and 50% dress simulator. Let's make it 100% dress simulator, much more fun!

Grinch wrote:Well, D2clicker use a "routine" to do his job. If u want to gamble a specific item you either have to use a program which checks for the image or itemcode, i think both ways would end in a ban because of botting.
You could only use D2clicker to gamble everything random from pos X to pos Y.

Well yea, if he just has it set to gamble every ring that appears, isn't that allowable? Not searching for one specific ring

Nitz wrote:I think that's a great idea. This game is like 50% hack n slash and 50% dress simulator. Let's make it 100% dress simulator, much more fun!

Nitz wins the thread.