Leech in 2017

suchbalance wrote:
Why leech penalty is 1/15 instead of 1/12.5: bosses now have at most 35% physical resistance, compared to 75-100% before. We decided to nerf leech slightly compared to before because it now gives ~260% more sustain against bosses (worst case), and in the case of bosses who were using heroic shields ~500% more. Since leech is applied instantly in D2 being able to facetank content with high leech numbers is not desirable.

Okay. But how is cutting leech in half a "slight nerf"? Since the previous figures weren't disputed can we assume they are correct? If monster damage in destruction wasn't affected globally (nor player life) how can builds that rely on leech be expected to survive with half the amount vs non-boss enemies? I can understand not wanting players to tank bosses using leech but is there a better way to go about it? It is possible to instead make bosses immune to leech? Aren't the mobs in unformed land this way?

suchbalance wrote:Nonetheless this is on our radar, at the end of the current ladder we'll have enough information to decide if a buff is necessary.

Why wait an entire ladder when its obviously an issue now? Several people have given feedback about it being a problem and not just on realm, but other channels that can't be monitored for feedback that is just as useful. Leech is what it is now, and its not going to magically adjust itself to a working rate on its own. I really hope that waiting 3+ months isn't set in stone, because the end game doesn't revolve around a cow level thats filled with only BPR. Leech for many builds is a necessity, not a luxury.

immune to leech? Aren't the mobs in unformed land this way?
demons and ...some like that-mobs are leechable and bosses,
what not working is leech from necrobots, skellies, skeletons,...

i can only remember that leech working in unformed land

but there s maybe also an different between

pur phys LifeLeech
Life on Striking, in melee or with range attacks
LAEK, life after each kill, more for casters, but also usefull for melee and can be found in some melee skilltrees

fumbles wrote:
Why wait an entire ladder when its obviously an issue now? Several people have given feedback about it being a problem and not just on realm, but other channels that can't be monitored for feedback that is just as useful. Leech is what it is now, and its not going to magically adjust itself to a working rate on its own. I really hope that waiting 3+ months isn't set in stone, because the end game doesn't revolve around a cow level thats filled with only BPR. Leech for many builds is a necessity, not a luxury.

can copy that, ty fumbles, sorry dunno how to quote only pointed lines

Lunar, physical immune mobs won't let you leech because leech only occurs when you deal physical damage to the mob. Life on striking works any time you hit with weapon damage, regardless of whether or not it deals weapon damage to the enemy afaik. Life after each kill gives life when an enemy is killed by any means.

on what bosses is life leech very strong

Was enemy damage and player health left relatively alone in 2017? I know that player damage, and enemy health was reduced by a factor of 8, but nothing about enemy damage and player health.

If enemies still deal the same amount of damage but players now deal 1/8, then life leech subsequently will heal for less. In this case, it would mean that leech is basically 1/8 as effective as it was for sustaining against damage compared to the last version.

its in the first post the difference.

But life on striking is not affected by destruction penaly it affect its 100% effectivness. (i am correct?)

ye life on striking always works at face value

Fumbles wrote:Okay. But how is cutting leech in half a "slight nerf"? Since the previous figures weren't disputed Ican we assume they are correct? If monster damage in destruction wasn't affected globally (nor player life) how can builds that rely on leech be expected to survive with half the amount vs non-boss enemies? I can understand not wanting players to tank bosses using leech but is there a better way to go about it? It is possible to instead make bosses immune to leech? Aren't the mobs in unformed land this way?

I'm really tired of repeating myself at this point. Leech was not cut in half. The 50% WDM reduction lead to your character dealing 1/8th of the physical damage compared to before, which means 1/8th the leech. However the leech penalty was also changed from 1% effectiveness on Destruction to 6.67%. Which translates to ~20% less leech. To put things in perspective, if you had 40% life leech on your gear in ultimative you would need 48% now to have the same leech versus regular enemies. Obviously 8% life leech won't make or break a build as much as people like to dramatise.

Fumbles wrote:Why wait an entire ladder when its obviously an issue now? Several people have given feedback about it being a problem and not just on realm, but other channels that can't be monitored for feedback that is just as useful. Leech is what it is now, and its not going to magically adjust itself to a working rate on its own. I really hope that waiting 3+ months isn't set in stone, because the end game doesn't revolve around a cow level thats filled with only BPR. Leech for many builds is a necessity, not a luxury.

Because people are giving knee jerk reactions and the patch has only been out for 2 weeks. Even from this thread it is obvious many still can't get their heads around the damage rework and see nerfs everywhere, others aren't very good at the characters they are trying to play and then blame changes and others are not trying to adapt to changes at all or commenting using past knowledge without trying to make the build work in 2017.

suchbalance wrote:Because people are giving knee jerk reactions and the patch has only been out for 2 weeks. Even from this thread it is obvious many still can't get their heads around the damage rework and see nerfs everywhere, others aren't very good at the characters they are trying to play and then blame changes and others are not trying to adapt to changes at all or commenting using past knowledge without trying to make the build work in 2017.

Going to have to expect these "knee jerk reactions" with the amount of changes to the mod and the legacy it has. I certainly don't agree with a number of changes, though i've stated them enough to warrant keeping my silence now. A lot was fixed that wasn't broken, and conversely, a huge number of old problems remain.

I can appreciate the effort, and some of the new theories behind MXL17, but this mod still needs a lot of work, and i'm kind of hoping you devs realize that.