Your opinion on auto corpse recovery?

no more rejoin, i love it :hammer:

please dont add a timer in the future :facepalm:

Solfege wrote:Hmm... Well maybe I'm not understanding what's meant by "playing properly." (Void, explain pls )

having an incentive not to die, its not that easy sometimes. of course there was an incentive for dying before in some situations (and even that was usually bad), but now the benefits of risky/brainless play outweigh the "penalty" of picking up corpse and going back into tp (in some ways its easier than getting pots by walking to town, because the death teleport gets you closer to a vendor faster lol), and that incentivizes bad habits imo. you can just keep hammering away repeatedly, its a more accessible strategy now than it used to be because the penalty is lower, and you can get the goal you want (uber, regular game progress, etc), but you pay the price for it, you focus less on doing it properrly i.e. with a strategy that can do it with few or no deaths if done with precision and controlling the game.

that said, i like the idea of comparing it to belladonnas/respec. its not the same thing. belladonna lets you adjust spec and it may become/usually becomes easier, while corpse teleport makes things more manageable regardless of spec. BUT if we look back at the time when respec was new there were many people against it because it disincentivizes committment to a char so you never master certain inferior specs, but over time more and more of them come to accept it and view it more positively and now its just the norm and it makes the game better for most people.

and since this feature is extremely new, id say we should give it at least 2 months time to see how the effects impact the overall experience. new opinions welcome ofc, just lets remember that we are at the beginning so its too early to put it all together and make a big claim on day 2

Pub wrote:I see. I didn't mean anything hostile by my previous comment. With that said, another and much more viable strat is to respect. I personally enjoy build variety for uber completion. Or some even dedicated specs for uber like Laz because of the mechanics it provides.

I pray one day more ubers like Laz come out. I enjoy doing ubers that have an "oops you slipped you die" sort of scenario all while having an interesting fight itself. Triune has an interesting similar one shot mechanic but the fight feels so much more volatile that it's quite infuriating all because of the super slow. I hate not being able to control my char.

No worries, my friend. I understood what you were saying. Just wanted to be clear about what I was saying.

Regarding respecs in general, I'm of 2 minds on that (I won't go into detail b/c it would be boring and convoluted). Basically, you're right, respecs are always an option, but Median is moving away from the need for constant respecs. I believe that was partially why Belladonnas are now a drop instead of something you could craft: to make respeccing just to cheese some Ubers less attractive. Which makes auto corpse recovery a logical step toward that goal.

void wrote:...

Ty for the explanation. I don't think it invalidates any of the points I've made though. I mean, do rejoin and TP holding discourage proper play? If I understand your explanation, you'd have to say it does. To take it a step further, the ability to respec would also discourage proper play, since the benefits of respeccing to an easier build would far outweigh learning how to do it "properly" with your main build. You could even take it to a ridiculous extreme and say SUs discourage proper play b/c they make doing things easier than using TUs (ok, that SU example is obviously dumb and sounds more like thunderlogic, but you get my point).

In the end, there's nothing stopping a person from learning how to do an Uber w/o dying, just as no one is being forced to respec. Both of these features just give players more options for doing things in different ways. I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong for thinking a certain way, I'm just explaining my thoughts on the feature.

Also, let's not forget that many of the features being gradually implemented right now are just small pieces of a larger picture, so it's important to look at these things in that greater context, and not as individual features.

Fak guys. Sorry my posts are always so long.

Solfege wrote:In the end, there's nothing stopping a person from learning how to do an Uber w/o dying, just as no one is being forced to respec.

Well, the problem I see with properly lerning your build is that some builds simply can't do certain ubers. For some builds you're forced to dismiss your original build and respec. Best example for that is the soulstealer affix on bosses. Minions heal the boss, so summoner builds can't do that because the minions die 1-hit despite minions having 80k+ life and thus they only heal the boss all the time.
The same goes for Laz and uldy, where you're forced to hit them with a wdm skill in order to apply Open wounds.

Don't get me wrong, I like the diversity of ubers. It has its charm to it. On the other hand: what brings the diversity is also restricting.

So I think respeccing is (for most people) a necessity to advance further. And to finally get back on topic: I think the corpse recovery helps a lot for people who rather play on their own. It greatly helps because you don't lose your progress for the uber you're doing. On the other hand that also means you're basically cheesing some ubers that you couldn't normally do. I can imagine that I can beat assur now on my own with my summoner build, which I couldn't do before, simply because as soon as I retrieved my corpse I was already dead again. But now I can get myself into a better position and even if I die, it's not a problem at all. I can just summon everything I have on a wp and go back through the tp, which I couldn't do before on my own. So it definitely has its good sides and its bad sides, but how that ends up... we'll have to see.

Corpse Recovery is awesome. :thumb:

A timer is a bad idea for normal gameplay. You removed corpse recovery because dying in itself was punishment enough.. Why renege?

its hard to say 1000x deaths to do an uber that its a good way to play, even if it may be the easiest way. i think overall it will be hard to justify that kind of strategy as "proper".

about thunderlogic, well, if you want gg items you have to make a relatively high concrete investment, be it $-->tg or time invested farming, so its not equal, tp scrolls are cheap and corpse recovery is free now and you mostly have things to gain from abusing it, thats why i think some sort of restriction might help it. i understand your argument, but its not a strong one because each of those things benefits the player in a different way

but yea, "infinite lives hack" with tp abuse was always a lame way to play imo, even if nearly everyone abused it and it has been like this forever. i suppose since body recovery is now free it shows even more

It trivializes many uberquests. Same as teaming up and holding tps, and it is even faster because you dont have to rejoin.
Now if you both co-op and have corpse respawn in town, you dont even need to worry to cast the tp in time, just zerg rush.

For sure it is something new, and people might enjoy it, as change of pace vs old system, but I think in long run this might hurt the game.
But I think this is only transitional stage to making ubers events where if you die, you can't finish it, then tps will not be a problem anymore.

Something Blizzard should have done, like many things that Median XL Developers have done by themselves, without any budget, just love for the game.

@Void and Hecht
Sorry guys. I think I'm getting too bogged down in details and I'm not coming across very clearly. Let me clarify my position:

1. Generally, respecs and auto corpe recovery are good features. The addition of Belladonnas gave every class greater access to more content; the addition of auto corpse recovery now gives more builds the same thing. Ofc there's potential for abuse, but it's that way with most things. I have faith that Marco and Co. will implement appropriate countermeasures in the future to prevent or minimize abuse.
2. I'm not against a "death penalty." In fact, I support one. I'm not sure a timer is the right way, but it's hard to say without having tried it.
3. No one has yet made the case for how auto corpse recovery is any different/any worse than rejoin+TP holding, aside from requiring 2 players. If auto corpse recovery is bad, then rejoin+TP holding is bad, too.
4. I do not consider 1000x death-grind a viable strategy.
5. The SU thing was just an example of taking logic to absurd extremes to illustrate a point (hence, thunderlogic). Not meant as a serious argument.
6. These features are bits and pieces of a final product. They cannot be judged individually and must be viewed in that greater context.
7. I'm enjoying this discussion.

Edit:
Reordered the list.

Respawning with your corpse is the sped up version of jumping back into your tp after someone holds it for you or joining back after the game becomes permanent.

This one small change, if you think about it, makes the whole game much more accessible to everyone else. The game is gonna be "too easy" for all you guys who play religiously (the only ones usually complaining about things like this) or are just better at the game. Corpse recovery was annoying and dated- nobody liked it. Penalties are unnecessary as that would bring us back to square one if the penalty tilted the fan base on its head.

This feature works out just fine and evens out SP and MP in terms of endgame and improves QOL for the gameplay. Ubers still have mechanics that can't be passed over by getting your body faster and any boss that can be facerolled by this was already facerolled because of little or no special mechanics.