Short Questions Thread

[ChuckNoRis]

what are the differences between tantrum paladin and barbarian?

the barbarian can deal more damage , can get more life and more defence . he's obviously stronger , but there's not such a nice guide for it as you can see for the paladin with lots of vids , pics and nice colours , for people to play it more .

[Gekko64]

actually there's a nice guide for tantrum barb: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=127

paladin is just a stronger overall char due to reasons pinball listed, plus can respec to unholy caster for some ubers and has sacred armor to cheese some others

[ChuckNoRis]

you didn't get my point people seam to look for vids , pics and nice colours in order to play a build . reason why tantrum pally became the new pounce assassin . everybody played one .

paladin is just a stronger overall char due to reasons pinball listed, plus can respec to unholy caster for some ubers and has sacred armor to cheese some others

i disagree

- great regen can come from instant heal at 5 seconds timer (inner fire from TU Kriegsmesser on switch / rare/crafted belt) - more than enough when you have 5% chance to be hit and 30k hp
- damage reduction can be aquired from gear
- faster speed may come from gear
- has higher ammounts for all sources of damage

it's all about the gearing and skillplan . for frw there's wolf stance (1-pointer) , high magic damage from lion stance , raindbow damage from kraken ; huge physical damage from doom that amplifies the tantrum multihit . no need for respecs .

the barbarian wins in every situation . he's just underplayed

[Gekko64]

ah yeah I see what you mean, well the tantrumdin guide is obviously extremely well done just like the pouncesin one was, but I think the reason it's so popular is that people want a char that can do ALL ubers with minimal respecs

[suchbalance]

Actually the claim that barb tantrum somehow does much better damage than pal is a myth. That's because endgame both classes have thundergod (not to mention barbs only 1 pt it apparently) so the only difference is kraken stance which is nullified by the fact that paladin attacks 2x faster (100% more global damage by default and twice as good utilisation of cb - the best wdm stat), caps his pierce & cb without having to use suboptimal items and makes use of superbeast to buff passive spell damage sources - voj/hive/path of flames/SoD/toesie lava pit. I have not done a direct comparison but I would not be surprised if pala has more damage endgame with everything considered.

The nice thing about barb is that you are a lot tankier and you can stand still and facetank stuff while with pala you have to dodge a lot in the early - mid game stages since the items that give flat ele dmg have low def (jitans, auriels). The biggest deal breaker in terms of playing barb tantrum for me is the tedium in playing one untwinked. This is because pala gets divine apparition and tantrum as a skill is just made for a short cd teleport. You need it to engage ranged enemies / desynch yourself / position yourself efficiently / leave melee range instantly if you need to / helps immensely during ubers etc. Using tantrum as a barb is just clunky until you get your hands on a void charm.

And since I am against buying charms (most fun part in mxl is getting them for yourself imo) the overall slower and less involved play style of the non-void charm barb is definitely enough to put me off of playing one.

[Xplosive]

Well honestly i found it stupid when Laz changed barbarian skills and removed Guard Tower in 1.d9? and added wolves that have the only worthwile doom around that easily adds over 10k dmg thus making barbarian THE tantrum class . I think before there were some experiments with tantrum Assassin .

Btw doesn't tantrum still have ND but now pierces ? It used to have no nd and missile was consumed on hit so you could hit some immunes right around you and miss enemies 1 yard farther because no missile left

I wish Aegipan skills were still usable . I still have a lvl 90 something aegipan druid saved somewhere . Thornfield was so cool but then treewarden came around with superspeed AoE attack and gosu flame skills .

@suchbalance barbarian has enough spare points to get a no cooldown/low cooldown teleport from spirit tree and also get tanky summons for some random situations they are needed like butcher

[ChuckNoRis]

Actually the claim that barb tantrum somehow does much better damage than pal is a myth.

it's just the reality , not a myth
you have left doom (10k damage/hit with smaxed wolves) out of your ecuation , that works wonders with tantrum multihit .

nef staff on switch for blink in early game (more than enough) , jitan's gate in mid game .

@suchbalance barbarian has enough spare points to get a no cooldown/low cooldown teleport from spirit tree and also get tanky summons for some random situations they are needed like butcher

+ this if you go for the spirit tree to teleport the summons army along with you

Using tantrum as a barb is just clunky until you get your hands on a void charm

same goes for the paladin untill he gets DA in mid game .

they are both the same here

[suchbalance]

mid game for me = you are lvl 120, have done all the easy ubers and progressing onto medium/more difficulty ones and farming sigs

By the way I ignored doom on purpose - phys dmg is irrelevant for a paladin. 100% CB with a 4 frame tantrum placement speed on something that hits 34 times per second per tantrum means if the target is not phys immune it dies instantly even without any bow/additional flat phys dmg. That's the whole point of that char.

[Fumbles]

Tantrum Barb doesn't require any sets, sus, great/elemental runes to farm end game areas. The only uber worth farming that the void charm really benefits is Duncraig but blink staff is sufficient enough, its just slower. Jitan's Gate is absolute garbage and always will be. Inner Fire is a waste of time because it requires weapon switching and over any amount of time, 10-12% damage reduce from

Ashaera's Armor

Ashaera's Armor
Belt (Sacred)
Defense: 1687 to 1760
Required Level: 100
Required Strength: 575
Item Level: 105
+(21 to 25) Spell Focus
+(11 to 15)% to Spell Damage
+500 Defense
(11 to 15)% to Energy
Elemental Resists +(10 to 15)%
Physical Resist 10%
Socketed (2)

or

Truce

Truce
Belts
'Jah'
Runeword Level: 80
5% Combat Speeds
Stun Attack
Slows Attacker by 5%
+(172 to 200)% Enhanced Defense
Physical Resist 10%

will prove to be more useful. Barb can reach 80% leech in mid-game anyways.

With the right charms and gear, 100% crushing blow can still be reached. One point in the spirit tree is useful but spirit walk isn't worth investing more than that because it can't teleport through walls. Lion stance is only useful for the magic elemental in Kabraxis uber, otherwise it doesn't benefit the build. Also, having summons up isn't necessary for spirt walk to work.

[ChuckNoRis]

it may be irelevant for the paladin (because he can't acces that ) , but it's more than relevant for the barbarian . Barbarians may also go beyond 50% CB with ease , and may reach 100% too

we're talking about facts here .